leica M4-2 o leica M4 P ???

gemelli · 09-20-2009

Hello everyone .... I have a question for you ....
According to you that the two leica agrees to buy?
Leica M4-2 600 euros or 700 euros Leica M4 P
The price of your rangefinder is convienent?
Thanks for the answers

payasam · 09-20-2009

Welcome, gemelli. They are both fine cameras. If they are in equally good condition, you can safely buy either of them.

rxmd · 09-20-2009

They are practically identical except for the framelines - the M4-P has more (28 and 75mm). I find those more disturbing than helpful - 28mm I can't see anyway in the Leica finder, and 75mm clutter the field for 50mm lenses. Definitely not worth an extra 100 EUR for me.

gemelli · 09-20-2009

The price is right or too high?

With that price I can buy another type of best Leica M?

Thanks

Rob-F · 09-20-2009

The M4P is the safer buy. The first M4-2 cameras had some problems that can be expensive to repair--and problems have been known to develop with this model even if it seems OK at first. These repairs can be so expensive it may not be worth it. Both of the cameras you are thinking of seem a little overpriced, unless they are in almost like-new condition. But they are not greatly overpriced, just a little high. If you could get the M4-P for 600 Euro, I would do it. Even 650 would be all right if it is in very fine condition. But remember, you may have to get a CLA. The cost of that should be considered before buying.

I am basing my judgment of the cost on the prices here in the U.S. You can buy an M6 here for about $1100.00 That would be about 750 Euro. So I think 600 to 650 Euro would be fair for the M4-P, since it is older and does not have a meter.

Best to you,

Rob

maddoc · 09-20-2009

$900 for an M4-P in excellent condition or $750 for an M4-2 in excellent condition would be my upper limit. However, if you are living in Europe the prices are higher, due to the - in most countries insane - VAT and import taxes.

Without having seen the two cameras or a better description it is very difficult to give an advice. Generally, the M4-P is newer and some problems of the earlier M4-2 have been eliminated.

xayraa33 · 09-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F

The M4P is the safer buy. The first M4-2 cameras had some problems that can be expensive to repair--and problems have been known to develop with this model even if it seems OK at first. These repairs can be so expensive it may not be worth it. Both of the cameras you are thinking of seem a little overpriced, unless they are in almost like-new condition. But they are not greatly overpriced, just a little high. If you could get the M4-P for 600 Euro, I would do it. Even 650 would be all right if it is in very fine condition. But remember, you may have to get a CLA. The cost of that should be considered before buying.

I am basing my judgment of the cost on the prices here in the U.S. You can buy an M6 here for about $1100.00 That would be about 750 Euro. So I think 600 to 650 Euro would be fair for the M4-P, since it is older and does not have a meter.

Best to you,

Rob

Any problems the M4-2 might have had, have been long ago fixed since 1978 or so.
I bought new two M4-2s , one in 1978 and another in 1980, 1st one had shutter curtain bounce that was fixed under warranty after the first roll of film. The other was a tad less smooth in winding than my M4 and that too was rectified under warranty.
I still have and use my M4-2s and they been great cameras.

Nokton48 · 09-20-2009

I prefer the viewfinder in my M4-2, nice and uncluttered, like my M5 and M2. Just 35, 50 and 90 framelines. If the camera looks nice and works properly as-is, the M4-2 would be a good choice IMO. I just bought a Rapidwinder for mine, now I -really- like it. Taking it to a car show today, for a quick test roll, with the Canon 19mm and Eastman XX.

payasam · 09-20-2009

Nokton 48, I haven't seen the M4-2 and the M5, but don't they have 135mm frames also?

Nokton48 · 09-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by payasam

Nokton 48, I haven't seen the M4-2 and the M5, but don't they have 135mm frames also?

You are right, both cameras have 35/135 framlines displayed together. I never paid attention to that as I don't use the 135 focal length.

laptoprob · 09-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by payasam

Nokton 48, I haven't seen the M4-2 and the M5, but don't they have 135mm frames also?

The M4-2 also has 135 lines, together with the 35 lines. The 135 lines were convenient to frame the Komura 200: between the 135 lines and the rf patch.
The first batches of the M4-2 still had the earlier VF/RF setup. This was altered later, which appearantly caused the flare problem in later VF.

Rob-F · 09-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by xayraa33

Any problems the M4-2 might have had, have been long ago fixed since 1978 or so.

Ah, no. I'm pretty certain it was Andy Piper, over there on the Leica Forum on Photo.net, who posted to let us know that he bought a used M4-2 within the past several years, that developed problems that were so expensive to fix that he took a total loss on the camera.

Avoid! Stick to the M4-P.

rxmd · 09-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F

Ah, no. I'm pretty certain it was Andy Piper, over there on the Leica Forum on Photo.net, who posted to let us know that he bought a used M4-2 within the past several years, that developed problems that were so expensive to fix that he took a total loss on the camera

I'm pretty certain I once heard from another guy, a friend of a neighbour of a colleague of my sister's father-in-law, who once bought an M6 that developed problems that were so expensive to fix that he took a total loss on the camera. Avoid M6es! Stick to the MP.

Yay for anecdotal evidence on the Internet! That sort of thing can happen to you with any camera if you have bad luck. I'd say M4-2s are fine.

gemelli · 09-22-2009

Hello everyone thank you for the various suggestions ............... I chose the Leica M4-2 with serial number 15xxxxxx ........ which I think .... I am very happy because it is the first Leica M that I possess! Your turn to choose a target if you want ..... can you help me! thanks

George S. · 09-22-2009

Good choice either way. The decision basically comes down to your choice of framelines, but you also can have the six M4-P/M6 frameline mask added to the M4-2 at any time if you so desire. First batch serial numbers were 1480xxx to 1482xxx. Second batch was 1502xxx to 1508xxx. ( 3 more batches after those ) Your example was hopefully made after the initial problems. Enjoy it!

xayraa33 · 09-22-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F

Ah, no. I'm pretty certain it was Andy Piper, over there on the Leica Forum on Photo.net, who posted to let us know that he bought a used M4-2 within the past several years, that developed problems that were so expensive to fix that he took a total loss on the camera.

Avoid! Stick to the M4-P.

You can buy an M3 or M2 that has been internally butchered or any other make camera for that matter.

That is the risk you take with any used mechanical item.