All this talk about the M9 has me looking at 5Ds

[nightfly]

With all the full frame comparison stuff floating around I started looking at used Canon 5Ds. Bodies are pretty inexpensive now. Never really have been impressed by digital but I've seen some images shot with a 5D that look a lot more impressive to me than the usual digital stuff. Files look just richer.

What would be the smallest, lightest, 28-35-50 lens kit you could put together for a 5D that would yield a good street and travel kit?

I guess with converters you could use Olympus or other manufacturer glass as well, which is fine if it's not a big hassle. Lenses with hyperfocal marks would be good for the way I'd use it in the street.

Thinking all used stuff.

[jvan01]

28/1.8
35/2
50/1.4

These are all light and compact and give great IQ. The 35 is sort of the weak link, being an older motor driven AF and so is noisy focusing. You could go to the 35/1.4 but it's a lot larger.

[filmfan]

I was thinking the same thing about the 5D/D700...

[kshapero]

Originally Posted by jvan01

28/1.8
35/2
50/1.4

These are all light and compact and give great IQ. The 35 is sort of the weak link, being an older motor driven AF and so is noisy focusing. You could go to the 35/1.4 but it's a lot larger.

I'm sorry, did you say "light and compact" for a Canon 5D and lenses?

[StaaleS]

All things are relative. Compared to a 1D-series with L primes on it...

[jonmanjiro]

hehe interesting to read this thread. ever since the M9 release i've been checking prices on used D700s

[Keith]

I think a 5D with a fast manual focus 50mm and 35mm would be my choice of kit if my M8 died ... I sure as hell can't afford an M9 but I need something to work with in low light and being able to work at higher ISO's than my current M8 and 35mm Nokton setup would be useful. It's ironic in some ways that as good as the M9 appears to be you can pretty well match it's perfomance with a four year old DSLR for not a lot of money!

[f16sunshine]

Using adapted lenses on a 5D is a breeze.
I use both Contax and Leica R.
Recently more the latter.
The adapter for Leica R can be left in the camera.
This basically turns the camera into a 5DR only with manual focus and stopped down metering.
The eBay seller "happypagehk" has an adapter with a programmable af chip.
You will have full use ofmetering modes and, be able to program exif data for different lenes.

[snausages]

Originally Posted by Keith

...as good as the M9 appears to be you can pretty well match it's perfomance with a four year old DSLR for not a lot of money!

The M9 seems to put a $5,000 premium on its 300 gram advantage over the 5d II.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by JSU

Image quality is only part of the equation. A 5D is still a SLR.

I think I would more likely revert to a Canon G11 to back-up my Leicas rather than a 5D and selection of glass. My current G10 wears a CV 28mm VF and is not a bad camera when ISO is limited to 400, the G11 is reported to have better IQ at higher ISO's with the same glass. It's worth a look as a backup to a Leica. And the Canon G9, 10 & 11 are not just quiet, they are SILENT. Something even the "Discreet Mode" doesn't offer. Live view for accurate framing and the ability to make video don't hurt either.

Nothing matches my M8's discreet profile in a crowded gallery though ... this is where a 5D may be a hinderance! I'd like to compare though.

I photograph people at very close quarters in this environment and they are well aware they're being photographed ... would having a DSLR pointed at them really make that much difference ... and the shutter of my M8 is hardly quiet, it definitely makes a few of them blink!

[snausages]

Originally Posted by Keith

Nothing matches my M8's discreet profile in a crowded gallery though ... this is where a 5D may be a hinderance! I'd like to compare though.

I photograph people at very close quarters in this environment and they are well aware they're being photographed ... would having a DSLR pointed at them really make that much difference ... and the shutter of my M8 is hardly quiet, it definitely makes a few of them blink!

In my experience in the US, a Leica or a Mamiya draws more attention than a DSLR. People are so used to seeing big digital cameras. Rangefinders are anything but inconspicuous, then, despite the fantasy of stealth. Doesn't mean I want a DSLR, but digital cameras are generally more taken for granted in Western urban areas...

[nightfly]

Was just sorta thinking out loud. I've not really gotten along with any of the digitals I've had- a Canon A series, a Ricoh GRD and a GX100 but mostly because the image quality didn't grab me although looking back at some images the Canon A series did have some nice colors.

Will probably stick to my M4P, Yashica T4 and Ricoh GR (not digital) for the time being but lure of digital will probably grab me again sometime.

Seems like the digital world is finally moving in the right direction toward bigger sensor with less mega pixels and cameras that can be used without too much futzing.

Those 5d images though really look compelling...

[PatrickT]

I love using my 5D with a variety of Olympus OM lenses. I currently use a Zuiko 28/3.5, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/1.4 and I'm looking to get an 85/2.

These lenses are all very small and have great image quality. The 28/3.5 and 50/1.8 are particularly tiny, almost pancake-esque. I'm also looking to get the 35/2.8 which is similarly small.







Apologies for the crappy photos...

[gavinlg]

The 5d is one of those digital cameras that will still be taking amazing pics in 5 years time from now, already 4 years on from it's introduction. It's still at the top of the heap in image quality. It's simple, has only what's needed, rugged, and canons cheap primes are small/light and very high quality in optics (despite the plasticky build).

Seriously good camera.

The shutter sound isn't very loud, but it's a muffled/subdued sort of sound rather than the metallic sound of the nikons. I quite like it actually.

[nightfly]

Now we're talking ^^. Those Olympus lenses look like they would make it pretty doable as a street camera.

I have no idea how this sorta thing works. You just put on an adapter and boom it works but you loose some automatic functions?

If you are used to not using a meter and just hyperfocusing could you just use it like that? Set the shutter speed, focus and aperture by hand and shoot away?

How do the Olympus 28 3.5 and 2.0 compare to the Canon 1.8 in image quality and ease of use?

[Keith]

Seeing that Canon with the Zuiko lenses has me thinking ... I have lots of very nice Zuiko glass ... my 50mm f1.2 comes to mind!

[Gid]

The 5D is a bargain. I use one with a 50 1.4 as a walk around. Its not as light as an M8 with a 35 (which is what I used to shoot mainly), but it is not so heavy as to become troublesome. As to shutter noise, the 5D is relatively quiet - probably due more to it being a low frequency thunk.

[f16sunshine]

Originally Posted by Keith

Seeing that Canon with the Zuiko lenses has me thinking ... I have lots of very nice Zuiko glass ... my 50mm f1.2 comes to mind!

The Zuiko adapter is also very easy to use.
You can leave it in the camera as well since the lens release for OM in on the lens.
Super handy. Pick your legacy reflex lens mount. The 5D works with all but MD and FD.
It's a Killer with a Cron 2/35mm

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by nightfly

Now we're talking ^^. Those Olympus lenses look like they would make it pretty doable as a street camera.

I have no idea how this sorta thing works. You just put on an adapter and boom it works but you loose some automatic functions?

If you are used to not using a meter and just hyperfocusing could you just use it like that? Set the shutter speed, focus and aperture by hand and shoot away?

How do the Olympus 28 3.5 and 2.0 compare to the Canon 1.8 in image quality and ease of use?

Yep, just buy an adapter as mentioned above, pop it on the lens and start shooting. I normally shoot wide open or close to it, but if you want to stop down, you have to use stop down metering. That means when the aperture ring is turned on the lens, the viewfinder will become darker accordingly and that is how the camera meters. Kind of a pain when you want to shoot at f8 or whatever (because the viewfinder becomes fairly dark) but not a big deal at all when you shoot close to wide open. I have some focus-confirm adapters which will actually tell you when the image is in focus, just like your Canon lenses would. Of course, you have to manually focus (which I like).

But yeah, you can use aperture priority or manual, focus and shoot away. It's great.

I haven't used my Oly 50/1.8 much as I tend to use the 50/1.4 more (although it's slightly bigger and heavier). It is one of my most used lenses and I love it. I'm not a pixel peeper but I'd say it compares favorably to the Canon alternative.

The 28/3.5 vignettes wide open but when you stop it down a tad it really shines. Another lens I'm going to grab soon is the Oly 24/2.8 which was rated one of the best 24mm lenses ever by 16-9.net. Oh, and it's tiny too .

Feel free to check my flickr gallery for a ton of photos with some of these Oly lenses on my 5D. I shoot a lot of models and mainly use my 50/1.4 for them wide open. See for yourself, just search 50/1.4 in my photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/weezintrumpeteer/

Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions!

Patrick

Oh and Keith, let me know if you want to get rid of any of the Zuiko glass

[CK Dexter Haven]

There is also a Canon 28mm f2.8 lens - smaller than the 1.8 version.

Personally, i'd just use the Canon lenses and not bother with adapting other brands. I've tried that route, but always came away frustrated and without any tangible benefits. For one thing, the dSLR viewing screen is not ideal for manual focusing. You can get an alternate screen, which is supposed to be optimized for that purpose, but it's not a very significant upgrade. Secondly, i've had issues with focus consistency when using manual focus lenses on both the original 5D and 5DMkII. With both standard and focus confirmation adapters, i'll see it in focus in the viewfinder, but the LCD review shows it (somehow/mysteriously) out of focus. I've never been able to explain that, and i've seen the same comments from others online. Doesn't matter, either, what brand of lens i'm using. I've adapted Nikon, Contax, Pentax, and Leica-R.

The hassles, also, of shooting with stop-down metering are also notable. I suppose that, and maybe the focus/viewscreen issues, are moot, though, if you're going to scale focus and shoot from the hip, but are you really going to do that 100% of the time?

A 5D and one of those smaller non-L primes is not heavy. An M7 with any non-pancakey lens feels denser. I think, also, as pointed out above, that most people are so accustomed to seeing dSLRs that they are now quite inconspicuous. I don't think anyone is going to 'blend in' to the background and become 'invisible' - Leica or no Leica. A Leica user is bound to be perceived as a person shooting a big compact digicam. No more or less common than an SLR.

I've never used either of the Canon 28s. I used to have the 35/2, but now have the 35L. The 35L is a fantastic lens. But, it's big. The 35/2 i compared to the Leica-R 35/2 and found them to be even. Bokeh is pretty good. The L, though is better on all accounts. The 50/1.4 is a really nice lens. I always thought the bokeh was excellent, until the Sigma 50/1.4 came out. The Sigma is also pretty big, but bokeh-wise, it's amazing. I wouldn't advise getting one, though, unless you get the 5DMkII (or any of the other, newer Canons that have in-camera AF micro focus adjustments). Same with the Canon 50L - another huge lens. I have this now. Again, great bokeh (still, i think the Sigma's is better), but it requires the micro adjustment feature.

I haven't tried the zeiss for EOS line. I wanted to buy the set, though, as i've loved the Zeiss lenses on the Contax Aria/RX, G2, Contax N1, and Hasselblad/Rolleiflex, etc. But, i've hated the bokeh in just about every relevant Zeiss ZF (for Nikon) 50/1.4 shot i've seen. I've read it's the same formula for Canon. The 85/1.4, though, looks very nice. But, then, there's the Canon 85/1.2L, which still beats it....

Here's the thing, though: If you were impressed by "all the full frame comparison stuff," you could still stick with Leica, if you already have M-mount glass. Wouldn't an M8 with really fast CV glass like the 35/1.2 or 50/1.1 give you the same kind of DOF as a full frame 5D with 35/2 or 50/1.4? Not that i'm advocating the M8. I never bought one, as i also was only interested in full frame.... But, that's a thought, if the DOF thing is the primary concern. I would suggest, though, that if you're scale focusing and shooting street stuff, that's not really where you're going to see the benefits of full frame (5D/M9 versus M8).

[nightfly]

Patrick thanks for the info. I like your model shots with the 50 1.4. The vignetting works for you.

[David_Manning]

The D700 is an outstanding camera...a fantasy for SLR shooters. It will squeeze the best technical image out of any situation, and that's important when somebody else is paying you to get that shot. Even it's jpegs are finer than most RAW files from two years ago. That being said, an SLR is different from a rangefinder, much less a Leica.

I find my Leica quiet, smallish, and fairly discreet. I feel more in tune with the whole photographic process shooting and developing Tri-X. Shooting my M6 is simple, but requires adherence to a few photographic rules.

For pure form-factor, if your subjects are aware of your photography, the D700 really wins out. If you are trying to be discreet, an M-body wins. This is just my opinion.

A book I just finished photographing for will be published September 26th. It was shot with Nikon D2X and D300. The images are fantastic, and I was a hired gun. Some situations challenged one, or both, cameras. Technical image quality was very important to the publisher. I couldn't/wouldn't try to shoot that job with an M-body...not enough flexibility.

But when I kick around the city, it's an M and film.

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by nightfly

Patrick thanks for the info. I like your model shots with the 50 1.4. The vignetting works for you.

Thanks! Just to clarify, most of that vignetting was added in post. There's not much of it (if any) to begin with.

[Mcary]

An FYI those not familiar with Canon all the EOS lens allow manual focusing and in fact a lot of them have full time manual override which allows you to manually focus even it the lens is set on auto focus.
Also when actually shooting the only difference between the 5D and most 35mm film SLR is the aperture controls are on the body instead of the lens, and no you don't need a menu to access them.

[dfoo]

In my experience manually focusing lenses on my 5D was practically impossible, assuming you are using a large aperture.