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Half Frames / Subminiatures This forum is for all half frame 35mm cameras, including the very popular Olympus Pens and their SLR cousins, the Pen F and Pen FT, as well as all smaller than half frame subminiature film cameras.

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Rangefinder half-frame?
Old 08-21-2009   #1
Dez
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Rangefinder half-frame?

This is probably an old question, but here goes anyway...
does anyone know of a half-frame camera that had a rangefinder?? I've seen loads of different VIEWfinder designs, and everyone loves the Pen F SLR series, but was there ever one with a real rangefinder? I have necver seen such a camera, and wonder why not.

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Old 08-21-2009   #2
dovi
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http://www.subclub.org/shop/ricoh.htm

http://www.subclub.org/shop/halframe.htm




google
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Old 08-21-2009   #3
Al Kaplan
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Before WW-II there was the Leica 72, and I think that Robot made a few models. Depth of field is so great with short focal length optics that guess focusing is fine with most half-frame cameras.
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Old 08-21-2009   #4
Steve M.
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Two that I can think of. The Leica 72 (72 exposures on a 36 exp roll of film) and the Robot Royal. The Robot also had a spring auto film advance. I used to have one and wish I hadn't sold it. The Schneider lens was a wonder w/ build quality that made a Leica look like a Cosina. It was built more like a gun than a camera. Fantastic workmanship.
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Old 08-21-2009   #5
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The screw mount Leica 72 which was based upon the IIIc, the Nikon S3M, the prototype and more often found for very high priced fake production from parts Leica M4-22 and Leica M4P-22.

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Old 08-21-2009   #6
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I found a japanese make at an auction (darned if I can remember the name) but it was a true rangefinder, half-frame. Paid $5 for it and sold it on ebay for $350, much to my surprise. To a guy in Japan of course.
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Half-frame rangefinder
Old 08-21-2009   #7
Dez
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Half-frame rangefinder

I had forgotten about the Leica 72, probably because the prices these days are more apprporiate for small pieces of realestate than cameras, I guess. I remember talking with a friend of mine a few years back about his early experience as a camera salesman in Toronto, seeing strange Midland Leica 72's in his store- they just didn't sell at the time. If only..........

The Robot Royals, as far as I know were 24 x 24 or 24 x 36 format.

I checked Dovi's links, but didn't see anything with a rangefinder. what am I missing???

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Old 08-21-2009   #8
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There's a half-frame Hexar RF, but only 50 were made.

I could be mistaken, but are the Olympus Pen (non-SLR ones) and Canon Demi's RF?
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Half-frame RF
Old 08-21-2009   #9
Dez
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Half-frame RF

Nope. I think those are all just viewfinders. I figured one of the strange Russian ones might have an RF, but I haven't encountered one.

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Dez
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Old 08-21-2009   #10
Al Kaplan
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I think the 72 predated the III-C and was based on a III-A or III-B body.

Robot did make some half frame cameras but I can't remember if they were in the rangefinder Royal series, the scale focusing Star, or maybe both. They were made in Switzerland and the qualty was right up there with Alpa and Leica.

Does anybody know if the 250 exposure FF was ever made in a half frame 500 exposure version?

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Last edited by Al Kaplan : 08-21-2009 at 14:43.
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Old 08-21-2009   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kaplan View Post
Robot did make some half frame cameras but I can't remember if they were in the rangefinder Royal series, the scale focusing Star, or maybe both. They were made in Switzerland and the qualty was right up there with Alpa and Leica.



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Actually I'd like to challenge that. Robots were built in Germany. Their construction was much more simple than almost anything Alpa and Leica ever did, they were positioned in a lower segment. And: they didn't have rangefinders. What was special with Robots was their rotation shutter.

Here a link to a German Robot fansite:
http://www.robot-camera.de

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_camera
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Old 08-22-2009   #12
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What about the canon demi wasn't one of those a rangefinder?
The ee17 was an rf if what I've read is true
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Last edited by -doomed- : 08-22-2009 at 06:15. Reason: Remembered what I was thinking it was
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Half frame RF
Old 08-23-2009   #13
Dez
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Half frame RF

I'm pretty sure the Demis just had a viewfinder. The second window on the ee17 is the CdS cell. I have heard rumours of a rare Japanese half frame RF, but the only examples I can think of are the hyper-expensive and hyper-rare half frame versions of some high end RF cameras. I suspect they didn't do too well in the marketplace.

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Dez
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Old 08-24-2009   #14
Tom A
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There was a Canon Demi (cant remember the rest of the designatioN) that had a rangefinder in it. I had one for a while - but gave it to a friend who later gave it to someone in Russia. Not a bad camera at all, if I remember right.
Alpa also made several 1/2 frame cameras - though in very small quantities and I have seen their SLR Alpa 10S as a half-frame - not RF though.
It is interesting speculate as to what the market would be for a film-based 1/2 frame Rf today? Obviously not a huge volume - but something based on either the Bessa R or R2/3/4 with either LTM or M-bayonet would be feasible.
Modern films have gotten so good that the smaller negative size would be off-set by the better films - even a film like Tmax-2 400 would be fine-grained enough to do full frame prints on 11x14 without penalty.
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Old 08-24-2009   #15
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With all due respect Tom, unless you had some rare non production Demi, according to the Canon Musem site, no Demis were produced with a rangefinder. There was a Demi that had two interchangeable lenses, but they were distance focused, not rangefinder coupled. All Demis were zone focused.

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/c...ries_demi.html

Last edited by kbg32 : 08-24-2009 at 11:14.
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Old 08-24-2009   #16
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I wonder - if HF were introduced to save on film (please correct me if I'm wrong) why anyone would spend extra on camera itself? Well, if lots of film is put through then expenses quickly could be dismissed. Though I guess that when one wanted to save, it did it twice - on film and camera. Isn't this part of reason why vast majority of HF cameras are scale focus?

Sure, dual format quality 24x36 cameras like Konica IIIM, Autoreflex and FT-1 were not supposed as cheapies, rather to offer natural vertical frame for people shots. This breed stands aside from half frame mainstream, I think, though are rather exceptions.

This days, I find native half-frames (with vertically oriented VF, that is) very good for people shots, despite smaller negative, which as Tom A. says, has become good enough.
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Old 08-24-2009   #17
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There's also the Ducati Sogno -- probably among the most expensive of the half-frame cameras.
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Old 08-25-2009   #18
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Quote:
Sure, dual format quality 24x36 cameras like Konica IIIM, Autoreflex and FT-1 were not supposed as cheapies, rather to offer natural vertical frame for people shots. This breed stands aside from half frame mainstream, I think, though are rather exceptions.
btgc, I didn't realise till now that, these dual format are all TOP models from my favorite brand.
By the way, recently I bought a couple of japanese books on half-frame, even though I don't have any.

Now I gotta get one!
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Old 08-25-2009   #19
Al Kaplan
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The Robot Star series lacked a rangefinder but the Royal series were rangefinder cameras.
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Old 08-25-2009   #20
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"Reversed Galilean" simply means that it's the opposite of telescope, making things smaller instead of larger. An ordinary viewfinder can have bright frames. That little circle is a CDS cell. The grid on the right covers the bright frames, which are projected onto the view like the bright frames in a Leica M.
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Old 08-26-2009   #21
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I wasn't sure I just thought it had some sort of rudimentary rf on it. There's one In my local camera store
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Old 08-26-2009   #22
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Hello,

There isn't a rangefinder in the EE1.7 cameras that I know. You can set the distance pretty precisely by setting the distance on a scale surrounding the lens. When you do that, a fat needle under the bright frame in the VF moves from mountain (infinity) at the left to a head (2.6 ft) on the right. So it's the user setting the distance either on the scale around the lens or using the zones in the vf.

I had a longer post written but the site didn't recognize my previous login, required me to log in again, and everything was lost... so far now, I'll just stick with the particular question about the EE1.7. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-28-2009   #23
shiro_kuro
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Here you go ... a half frame rangefinder
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_7482.jpg (39.5 KB, 57 views)

Last edited by shiro_kuro : 08-28-2009 at 03:31.
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Old 08-29-2009   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiro_kuro View Post
Here you go ... a half frame rangefinder
I saw one of those on the Bay a few months ago. Sold for more than US$ 50.000...
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Old 08-29-2009   #25
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Paying $50,000 for a camera is ludicrous. Of course, putting it into perspective, if you're a Wall Street trader, and you make $30 million a year, $50,000 probably doesn't seem like that much money.

But for many of us, $50,000 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a camera.
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