15mm for dummies like me...

Juan Valdenebro · 08-02-2009

The day I received my 15mm Heliar, I had been thinking for long how good it was going to be doing street shots without focusing... Then I started wondering things like:

Could I find any benefit using f/11 instead of f/8 if there's light enough?
If I use f/4.5 and focus at infinite, how OOF will my foregound be?
In case I have f/8 set and focus at 2 meters, how much real difference in sharpness will I get on background and foreground if a cloud comes and I need to shoot at f/4.5?
What's the real difference if I use the lens focused everyday at 1, 2 or 3 meters?

So I did a quick test... I put all shots together on a 24x30 cm. file, and I just came back from the lab. I''ll get my print tomorrow... Cropped area (scanned at 4800 dpi) is 1/6th of frame area. I used APX100 and Rodinal, tripod, R4M, cable release.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40894234@N07/3781966226/

Al Kaplan · 08-02-2009

I've probably shot as much with the 15mm Heliar as anybody. Many thousands of pictures! The simple directions are set the focus at one meter and forget it. Even at f/4.5 the horizon, dstant mountains, etc. will be sharp. On very rare occasions I'll want to shoot really close and I shift focus to half a meter. You probably won't notice any difference just by changing f-stop.

Have fun too. Turn the camera around and get in the picture!

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

Juan Valdenebro · 08-02-2009

Thanks, Al!

That's where I'll be, tryin' to relax with this little wonder... I'll start using the 1 meter focus then...

Regards,

Juan

Mephiloco · 08-02-2009

I was thinking about the 15mm, but was wary of it not being rangefinder coupled. I guess that really doesn't matter though, does it?

ethics_gradient · 08-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mephiloco

I was thinking about the 15mm, but was wary of it not being rangefinder coupled. I guess that really doesn't matter though, does it?

Nope, not really.

If you've got an M-mount camera there's a newer version in bayonet mount with RF coupling, but it does cost more than the older LTM uncoupled version.

Matus · 08-02-2009

According to : this DOF calculator - you need f/8 to reach the hyperfocal setting of 1m. In other words - if you set your lens to 1m and set the aperture f/8, than you should get everything within 0.5 to infinity in focus.

So - there is not really much focusing involved unless you want to shoot really close and wide open.

Al Kaplan · 08-02-2009

Set the focus at one meter. It even works at f/4.5.

Bob Michaels · 08-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mephiloco

I was thinking about the 15mm, but was wary of it not being rangefinder coupled. I guess that really doesn't matter though, does it?

Not being rangefinder coupled does even make a difference with the 24mm. In fact, I frequently zone focus with my 28mm, sometimes with the 35mm.

Bob Michaels · 08-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Kaplan

Set the focus at one meter. It even works at f/4.5.

I picked up Al's camera yesterday while we were having a up of coffee. I can tell you that his 15m was set at f4.5 and focused at one meter.

Al Kaplan · 08-02-2009

It's next to impossible to change the focus in my 15. The grease must be all gunked up from disuse.

I enjoyed meeting you and your son yesterday, and I'm sorry about our being seated next to those two women who wouldn't let us talk much photography. Why don't you post one of those shots you took of me, Monkette, and the one seated next to me?

Honest, Bob, I know a lot of people around here but NEVER before have I had a strange woman kissing, caressing, and hugging me in a restaurant like that. She was indeed a "strange" woman!

I also got to play with Bob's pristine M mount Zeiss camera and lens. It really felt nice and the finder is brighter than a Leica finder.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

Krosya · 08-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Kaplan

Set the focus at one meter. It even works at f/4.5.

Maybe it does, but when I tried it - it didnt for me. Maybe my idea of sharpness is different, yet there are many people on Leica forum that got the new version of Heliar that is RF coupled and find it much better as they can focus where they want, not letting DOF fill the gaps. Based on thier pics - I'd pay more and get a new one, but since I could never get used to 15mm lens FOV - I'll stick to my 21mm lens for now. YMMV.

Juan Valdenebro · 08-09-2009

From the print:

Focusing at 1m and f/4.5 (crop 4) shows most of the frame a bit soft, except very close things. Background is out of focus.

Going to 1m at f/8 (crop 5) means an improvement in overall image quality.

By 2m at f/8 (crop 8) I see its sweet spot.

Going to 3m and beyond doesn't make anything better. By f/11 there's a minimal sharpness and contrast change that I won't take care of.

Focusing real close and wide open, it even gives a tiny bokeh: everything's soft from 1m on... Great lens!

Regards,
Juan

Al Kaplan · 08-09-2009

Yeah, yesterday I was supposed to meet Ana at her house a second time to photograph her, and once more there were peiople coming and going constantly, too confusing to do a decent shoot, but we'll try again Wednesday or Thursday.

Yesterday I used the 15 as well as a 35 Summicron and my 85/2 Nikkor.

uhligfd · 08-09-2009

Closing down a very wide lens too much (maybe already at f/8) you will essentially have diffraction effects that rob you of any max sharpness, no matter where you focus ... So keep it sort of wide, maybe around f/5.6 or so ...

Al Kaplan · 08-09-2009

Diffraction effects can be kind of nice sometimes. I have made a lot of photos with a pin hole aperture mounted against the front surface of the 75mm Rokkor on my Minolta Autocord. The estimated f-stop is about 256.

Bob Michaels · 08-09-2009

I believe that anyone who does not have enough grasp of rudimentary distance and spacial relationships to zone focus a 15mm lens would be constantly walking into walls and off cliffs. I mean the difference between the subject being one meter, two meters, or five meters away is pretty simple to estimate. We are not talking about a 90mm lens at f2.0 here.

But, hey if those people feel they need a RF to focus a 15mm lens, let them do it.

FWIW, I have zero problems zone focusing my CV 25mm and frequently zone focus my 28mm and 35mm in street situations.

It may be noteworthy that the very expensive Zeiss Ikon 15mm Hologon camera is fixed focus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krosya

Maybe it does, but when I tried it - it didnt for me. Maybe my idea of sharpness is different, yet there are many people on Leica forum that got the new version of Heliar that is RF coupled and find it much better as they can focus where they want, not letting DOF fill the gaps. <snip>

35mmdelux · 08-09-2009

f/8.0 and be there.

ampguy · 08-09-2009

I'm going to keep mine on infinity for awhile, 4.5/5.6.

marke · 08-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Kaplan

I also got to play with Bob's pristine M mount Zeiss camera and lens. It really felt nice and the finder is brighter than a Leica finder.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

Ya know, Bob, next time Al sees you, you better have a few chunks of vulcanite falling off the camera. And a bit of brassing would help too. Come to think of it, was Al by any chance holding your camera when that strange woman was all over him?

Al Kaplan · 08-09-2009

I attended a very nice party last night at that "strange woman's" house. She said that she loved my deep voice but I'm sure that it was because just being next to her caused me to perspire enough to release copious amounts of pheremones into the air, and I was too distracted by her legs, her black dress with short skirt, and low cut bodice to remember whether I was holding Bob's black Z.I. camera to match her outfit or my black Bessa to...oh yeah! That would have matched also! Makes me wonder what other of her clothing might have matched.

All very striking though, with her long shiny black hair, gorgeous pale blue eyes, and red nails on both toes and fingers matching her nice full red lips all aglow with lip gloss.

(In retrospect I think that she found my well brassed beat up M2 a lot sexier than Bob's pristine new Zeiss Ikon. After all, the vulcanite has been soaking up my pheremones from my sweaty fingers for decades and decades...)

We're getting together again on Wednesday. In the meantime Bob, why don't you post a photo of Ana sitting next to me at the restaurant? Please. Pretty please! Get these dudes good and envious!

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

Al Kaplan · 08-09-2009

Another consideration re beat up old cameras, dirt impregnated Leica bags, etc. is that allows women at great distance to consider the possibility that you might not have showered for a dozen hours or longer, maybe even an entire day, and are just dripping with pheremones! Women are much more affected by odors than men, while men are mostly visual creatures.

Glenn2 · 08-09-2009

Al why didn't you do a 15mm shot with this lady of mystery? Too smitten?

Seeing your shots on Pnet with the 15 got me hooked and I had to have one. Made my 21 Super Angulon almost seem like a normal.

Have you ever used the 15mm for photographing wildlife? A fun game is seeing how close you can get, then tripping the shutter at the decisive moment. Will try to attach a seagull shot from the local waterfront.

I call it, flipping the bird..... ;-)

Glenn

Bob Michaels · 08-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by marke

Ya know, Bob, next time Al sees you, you better have a few chunks of vulcanite falling off the camera. And a bit of brassing would help too. <snip>

The camera body that Al saw is my backup which has seen little use. In reality, my primary ZI is beginning to look a bit ratty as it has a scratch on the top plate and the vulcanite is beginning to come loose.

Juan Valdenebro · 08-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhligfd

Closing down a very wide lens too much (maybe already at f/8) you will essentially have diffraction effects that rob you of any max sharpness, no matter where you focus ... So keep it sort of wide, maybe around f/5.6 or so ...

Nope. By f/8 this lens is as closed as any 1.2 lens shot by f/2, no diffraction.

Bob Michaels · 08-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by marke

<ship>Come to think of it, was Al by any chance holding your camera when that strange woman was all over him?

I tell you that Al is fast. He sat down, said hello to me (first time we had met face to face) and Ana immediately struck up a conversation with him from the next table. I though they were old friends because things moved so quick.

I must say Ana is quite hot looking. Very friendly and outgoing but carrying a bit of emotional baggage. She is a massage therapist and art film maker. Could anyone pick a more ideal combination? Quite a bizarre lunch we shared. As we parted, she hugged Al and shook my hand.

She is interesting enough visually and emotionally that I would love to spend some time photographing her. But I am 200 miles away and Al lives in her neighborhood plus has other opportunities being single. So it was appropriate to step back.

Too bad there was not enough light for enough DOF to carry both her and Al. In retrospect, I question if I focused on the right person.