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Old 07-15-2009   #26
Tuolumne
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I'm confused. Exactly what is objectionable about taking candids of attractive women on the street? Aren't those some of the most popular photos in the gallery?

/T
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Old 07-15-2009   #27
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Originally Posted by Tuolumne View Post
Aren't those some of the most popular photos in the gallery?

/T
ah ah ah, you got a good point. The puritarian hypocrisy ...
Though I would be really concerned if this guy only took pictures of old women or dog ****s ...
More seriously, shooting only young women probably means is main center of interest is not photography. But for one that has the balls to publish these pictures openly on his website and face criticism, how many take them secretly and keep them on their computers ? I see many freaks with mega zooms out there ... these are more concerning IMO.

Ok, here is one ... http://blog.yanidel.com/2009/06/13/6...ealing-beauty/

The second after she saw me and I said "beautiful hat" and she had a huge smile on her face.
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Old 07-15-2009   #28
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what kind of perv likes taking photos of young, beautiful women? oh, right, every straight male on the planet. and lesbians.
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Old 07-15-2009   #29
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I wish I could photograph more beautiful young women. They make life worth living!

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Old 07-15-2009   #30
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And, BTW, my wife is very much worth photographing.
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Old 07-15-2009   #31
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I don't see it as "questionable". I find this kind of pictures boring.

I usually photograph with a group of people. One of them has all Canon line of L lenses. I mean, ALL of them. He usually uses a 70-200 f2.8 or a huge 300 or whatever long prime or zoom he brings for the day. 90% of the pictures he takes are portraits of young woman shot from long distance. This pictures aren't sexual explicit or anything. They're just portraits of women walking in the street. He has thousands of pictures, all the same, just faces of unknown girls walking. I find it extremely boring. I mean, who'd like to see an exhibition of 500 pictures of woman faces?.

So the question for me is not the morality, it's the purpose. I try to photograph people interacting, actually doing something that tells a story. If it's a girl who's doing something interesting I'll photograph her, but just having a collection of girls faces doesn't say anything to me.

Anyway, if this is the style someone likes, I don't see anything wrong with it.

EDITED to fix some typos. Sorry

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Old 07-15-2009   #32
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One of my self portraits on flickr got favorited by someone whose photostream was entirely pictures of big muscular gay dudes (not sure where I fit into that) and funfairs (go figure).

A female friend had a completely everyday picture of her wearing a scarf favorited by a person whose favorites were literally thousands of pictures of girls wearing some sort of neckwear.

The world is full of people who are doing slightly unsavoury things like this, but I would suggest there's more important things to worry about than this.
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Old 07-15-2009   #33
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@ Maelswarm
By the way , your 3 last pictures are wonderful color pictures
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Old 07-16-2009   #34
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My favourite form of photography at the moment - check out the first page of my Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80702381@N00/

And here is one to get you going ----------------
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Old 07-16-2009   #35
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Let me give you some thoughts from a different perspective ...

In this day and age, when we're very uptight about stalkers, perverts, and the like, yes, it seems creepy. However, 40 years ago it was far more acceptable.

Sorry if I ramble on and on about this, but I still feel more or less the same as I did back then.

I know I've mentioned this here. My brother had what he called his "beach lens", which was a huge el-cheapo Spiratone 400mm telephoto. He and his bud would take the train out to Rockaway and they would hang out on the beach, smoke, drink (uh?) soda (yeah, right!), and take casual shots of the young ladies. "Boys will be boys" was my mom's attitude.

I remember that Spiratone had a kind of right-angle mirror adapter which they sold for just such things.

Nobody at all thought these guys were in any way stalkers or pervs! They weren't.

I saw through this as they very badly wanted to approach some of the girls, get to know them, and develop a relationship, but they were just too shy about it. I tried explaining this to him, but ...

My interpretation is still more or less the same. My guess is that the photographers in question here would LOVE to have a relationship with some of the young ladies they are shooting, but for some reason are reluctant to pursue such a thing.

That's my not so humble opinion, anyway ...
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Old 07-16-2009   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimm View Post
He usually uses a 70-200 f2.8 or a huge 300 or whatever long prime or zoom he brings for the day. 90% of the pictures he takes are portraits of young woman shot from long distance. This pictures aren't sexual explicit or anything. They're just portraits of women walking in the street. He has thousands of pictures, all the same, just faces of unknown girls walking. I find it extremely boring. I mean, who'd like to see an exhibition of 500 pictures of woman faces?
I don't know: people's faces are interesting. And I can certainly appreciate a pretty face:


[click for photo by calzinger at dA]

Still, I expect that many people would find "character" as interesting as "pretty":


[click for photo by Heide Smith at flickr]

...Mike
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Old 07-16-2009   #37
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Originally Posted by dmr View Post
Let me give you some thoughts from a different perspective ...

In this day and age, when we're very uptight about stalkers, perverts, and the like, yes, it seems creepy. However, 40 years ago it was far more acceptable.

Sorry if I ramble on and on about this, but I still feel more or less the same as I did back then.

I know I've mentioned this here. My brother had what he called his "beach lens", which was a huge el-cheapo Spiratone 400mm telephoto. He and his bud would take the train out to Rockaway and they would hang out on the beach, smoke, drink (uh?) soda (yeah, right!), and take casual shots of the young ladies. "Boys will be boys" was my mom's attitude.

I remember that Spiratone had a kind of right-angle mirror adapter which they sold for just such things.

Nobody at all thought these guys were in any way stalkers or pervs! They weren't.

I saw through this as they very badly wanted to approach some of the girls, get to know them, and develop a relationship, but they were just too shy about it. I tried explaining this to him, but ...

My interpretation is still more or less the same. My guess is that the photographers in question here would LOVE to have a relationship with some of the young ladies they are shooting, but for some reason are reluctant to pursue such a thing.

That's my not so humble opinion, anyway ...
That makes it all seem more creepy to me. People walking around craving something they are scared of, so they decide to shoot pictures secretly so they can do what with them later? You've filled my mind with really nasty images I'm struggling to remove.
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Old 07-16-2009   #38
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Quote:
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That makes it all seem more creepy to me. People walking around craving something they are scared of, so they decide to shoot pictures secretly so they can do what with them later? You've filled my mind with really nasty images I'm struggling to remove.
Life itself is creepy and dark Andrew. Go with it.
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Old 07-16-2009   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
Let me give you some thoughts from a different perspective ...

In this day and age, when we're very uptight about stalkers, perverts, and the like, yes, it seems creepy. However, 40 years ago it was far more acceptable.
I don't think it is less acceptable nowadays, young people take trillions of pictures.
But if I understood correctly, your brother had basically the same age as the girls photographed. He could have indeed gotten in a relationship with any of them I guess. Now, let say it was a family 60 years old buddy that had taken these pictures, would have this seen as normal too ? Or just shyness to start a relationship. Probably not.

Seriously, I take pictures of women (all ages) in the street but only when I feel there is a reason for it (colors, environment, situation, personality ...). One day on Les Champs-Elysées and you can come back with 100 pictures of beautiful young women, but that would be boring. Now what I don't like is the mega-zoom idiots that stand back 30 feet and do act like perverts. It is these very ones that make everybody become suspicious. Better be frank about it, use your 50mm lens, try to get the candid without worrying too much about being spotted. And if you are, smile, say something nice. There is much more chance to get a smile, funny comment or even discussion than be chased after being told "pervert pervert" Never happened to me at least.

Were I not single, I am sure this would be a wonderful first "approach" technique.
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Old 07-16-2009   #40
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Quote:
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so they can do what with them later?
Well, uh {blush} I do know what you mean, and I really wasn't thinking of that when I wrote that, but the principle is still the same.

Whether they take photos of young ladies and/or {insert euphemism here}, it's still the same, they are substituting one or the other for a more meaningful relationship.
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Old 07-16-2009   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimm View Post
I try to photograph people interacting, actually doing something that tells a story. If it's a girl who's doing something interesting I'll photograph her
I went looking through my photos (at lest those I have on-line) and found very few that just said "pretty lady". Most seemed to be in some sort of context. I did find a surprising number that were mothers (OK, pretty mothers) interacting with children:



I don't know what (if anything) that means, but I shouldn't think it's in any way purient.

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...but just having a collection of girls faces doesn't say anything to me. Anyway, if this is the style someone likes, I don't see anything wrong with it.
I quite agree.

...Mike
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Old 07-16-2009   #42
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C'mon...!

What's wrong about candid photos pf young (pretty) women?

HBC did it, Doisneau did it... I do it!!!!

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Old 07-16-2009   #43
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I agree with Maelswarm statements for the most part.

Anything in public is fair game. Personally, I take pictures of interesting people or things. If a girl is doing something interesting, then I will take her picture. Though I admit that I sometimes feel uneasy if the said girl is attractive because I don't want my girlfriend to get jealous when she looks over my photos.

Here are some of my favorites:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/foggie/3480724564/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/foggie/3310576848/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/foggie/3098518875/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/foggie/3117455170/
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Old 07-16-2009   #44
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I find it very creepy that people find pics of young girls creepy. We have a saying in Spanish: "El ladrón juzga por su condición".
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Old 07-16-2009   #45
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Very interesting thread. I don't really see a problem with it.

Also, did I miss it, or was a link to this guy's photos placed in this thread somewhere?
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Old 07-16-2009   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panda81 View Post
I'm posting this question because I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the matter. Being RFF, I imagine candid photography is one of the genres most of you are very passionate about. I won't put in any specifics because my purpose isn't trying to reveal anything about this particular photographer, but rather asking if my photographic and artistic vision is too short-sighted.

Basically, on another forum, I found a photographer who particularly likes to take photos (or at least show on the internet) of young women. These aren't model shots, portraits, or anything like that, but just random young women he bumps into wherever he may go. Some of these places include on the street, some indoor social activity, but also at the beach. The photos aren't of all types of young women either...I'll describe them as young women who probably take care of their bodies. The street photos aren't invasive or anything (nothing like pointing down a blouse), but the beach photos obviously have young women in swimsuits, bikinis, etc. His photo website is pretty much (90-95%) comprised of these types of photos.

My gut reaction is that this is pretty darn creepy. I wouldn't appreciate my wife being photographed in that manner. If I see some guy trying to sneak shot of my wife from the back when she's wearing her swimsuit at the beach, I'd go up to him and have a word or two. I imagine a lot of people with daughters in college would not want their kids being photographed and put up on the internet like that either.

Now, I'm not asking about the legality of the situation, but rather the morality and ethics of it. Seeing as how a certain demographic of young women is his target, I feel uncomfortable with this type of guy walking around.

The point of my post is, what do you guys think of this? Is my reaction normal or too conservative? Am I possibly missing some purpose where this is part of a bigger project that makes it artistic? By the way, the photos look pretty much like snapshots to me. I can't see any artistic touch to these the candids.

I'm very interested in everyone's responses - thanks in advance for the discussion.
I'd say you are not only way on the conservative side, but don't have a very firm grasp on reality. You apparently don't mind doing somehing right out in public, with people looking at you directly, but you object to people looking at photos of it. Why? Have you deluded yourself into believing that you have psionic powers that enable you to control what sorts of people are allowed to look at you in real life? Well, you don't. Is someone fantasizing over your wife's/daughter's photo somehow more objectionable than someone fantasizing over her in real life?
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Old 07-16-2009   #47
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Haven't seen the pics so I don't know if they have any real merit or not, but being a bad photographer is neither illegal or immoral. The fact he concentrates on nubile young ladies may be suspicious, but seems pretty harmless based on the description of the photos by the OP. If you are going to take candid photos of *anyone*, you need either to have the charm to make them not mind or else just not get caught. I would regard the latter as Plan A, and attempt the former if Plan B turns out to be necessary. When the subject is not going to go away (eg tending a stand at a market or fair), I sometimes ask permission, take a shot or two, say "thanks", then move on. Coming back later you can often get the candid you really want.
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Old 07-16-2009   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
Let me give you some thoughts from a different perspective ...

In this day and age, when we're very uptight about stalkers, perverts, and the like, yes, it seems creepy. However, 40 years ago it was far more acceptable.

Sorry if I ramble on and on about this, but I still feel more or less the same as I did back then.

I know I've mentioned this here. My brother had what he called his "beach lens", which was a huge el-cheapo Spiratone 400mm telephoto. He and his bud would take the train out to Rockaway and they would hang out on the beach, smoke, drink (uh?) soda (yeah, right!), and take casual shots of the young ladies. "Boys will be boys" was my mom's attitude.

I remember that Spiratone had a kind of right-angle mirror adapter which they sold for just such things.

Nobody at all thought these guys were in any way stalkers or pervs! They weren't.

I saw through this as they very badly wanted to approach some of the girls, get to know them, and develop a relationship, but they were just too shy about it. I tried explaining this to him, but ...

My interpretation is still more or less the same. My guess is that the photographers in question here would LOVE to have a relationship with some of the young ladies they are shooting, but for some reason are reluctant to pursue such a thing.

That's my not so humble opinion, anyway ...
In my case, you'd be 100% wrong. I wouldn't touch the young women I shoot with a 10-foot pole. Why? Because I'm 54. When you reach my age, try talking to an 18-or-19-year-old.
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Old 07-16-2009   #49
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Hi guys

I usually don't do that. I mean, if I go somewhere for a certain reason, I follow that.
Of course, if a beautiful girl / woman comes to my way, JUST BECAUSE IT'S BEAUTIFUL ( = nice to the eyes ) why don't take a picture of her? To be honest, when I can I approach them and ask them a picture. Usually this happens at formals or ceremonies where beautiful girls are sometimes shy of themselves, like this one (with her parents approval of course) I'm not a pervert nor I want to be pointed as it if now and then I took a picture I like. I don't spend my time looking at young ladies on my pc but it would be a pity losing the image of a such beautiful girl at THAT time. Sometimes photography goes beyond women and models. We just realize something is beautiful and can't be lost.



Of course if the one is just too far I have to choose in a second. Sometimes I take it, sometimes I take it not.
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Old 07-16-2009   #50
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My gut reaction is that this is pretty darn creepy. I wouldn't appreciate my wife being photographed in that manner. If I see some guy trying to sneak shot of my wife from the back when she's wearing her swimsuit at the beach, I'd go up to him and have a word or two. I imagine a lot of people with daughters in college would not want their kids being photographed and put up on the internet like that either.
If people don't want to be photographed in a bathing suit in a public place they have two options, don't wear the bathing suit or stay out of the public place. Very simple. Anything in a public place is fair game in the US, you put yourself out there you can be photographed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panda81 View Post
Now, I'm not asking about the legality of the situation, but rather the morality and ethics of it. Seeing as how a certain demographic of young women is his target, I feel uncomfortable with this type of guy walking around.
Well the legality is part of it- this is perfectly legal, so the morality and ethics have been deemed ok no? Would this be any less creepy if he was photographing old women? Old men? Little boys? Little girls? Cats? Why is this particular subject so objectionable? Might we question your own reasons for taking offense that someone might photograph your wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by panda81 View Post
The point of my post is, what do you guys think of this? Is my reaction normal or too conservative? Am I possibly missing some purpose where this is part of a bigger project that makes it artistic? By the way, the photos look pretty much like snapshots to me. I can't see any artistic touch to these the candids.
Winogrand was famous for snapshotty pictures of women- perhaps this guy loves Winogrand. Perhaps he loves women. I can't find anything wrong here.

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Originally Posted by antiquark View Post
...I'm just saying that there are people out there who would take great exception to someone photographing their wife...
Why? Again, if you can't bear the idea of her being photographed make her stay inside.

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Originally Posted by historicist View Post
...The world is full of people who are doing slightly unsavoury things like this, but I would suggest there's more important things to worry about than this.
What is "unsavory" about this??? Photographing the life on the street around you is NORMAL.
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