Processing C41 in B&W chemicals, what happens ?

taffer · 06-10-2005

Hi all,

first of all, this is a question completely out from ignorance, as I really have no idea of the potential mess that this could be

But as I just got a 'free' can with 100ft of color film (probably outdated) with my bulk loader, I've been thinking about possible sperimentin with it...

In fact, Ilford XP2 is a C41 B&W film but can be processed in normal black & white chemicals (at least the Diafine box says so) even though seems the results are not very ... pleasant. To sum up, is it physically possible to develop a C41 color film in B&W (maybe with a previous water wash or something) or would it result in permanent damage/mess to film/chemicals/tank ? Would be happy to hear stories if somebody has tried that...

TIA

Oscar

Stephanie Brim · 06-10-2005

They turn out black and white...generally. It often produces interesting results. Someone did it at the Lomo.us forums here: http://www.lomo.us/forums/showthread.php?t=8065

pshinkaw · 06-10-2005

Oscar:

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. Somewhere there is a website of "found films". The owner takes old film he has found in cameras and develops them to see what mysteries unfold. He does Kodacolor in Accutol and gets pretty decent B&W negatives. I e-mailed him for some details, and he sent me this:

Kodacolor in Accutol for B&W negatives:

10 minutes in Accutol 1:10 - 20c. Water stop bath, alkaline fixer (Photographers Formulary,) wash in running water for a few minutes. Photo-flo and hang in the bathroom.

But he pointed out that most other B&W chemicals will work too.

There is some info on Photo-Net as well.

I've been getting terrible results from color labs developing 126 and 110 film from cameras that used to give me superb results, Kodak Pocket Instamatics and 126 instamatices with Ektar lenses. I'm planning on testing out thisprocess with some Accutol and 110 Kodacolor one of these days.

-Paul

Fred · 06-10-2005

Take care with the timing, I lass at the college last year got her XP 2 developed in bog standard B&W stuff, the tutor assumed it was FP4, results were a scrap film

. Think it went clear. C41 dev and process times times are usually 3:15 at 38 degrees, followed by stop/wash/bleach fix for six minutes

.

If your going to try it, and curiosity tells me that I hope you do, be prepared to discard the used chemistry to be on the safe side. Oh, and if it works post some samples.

Worth noting that Diafine is not on the menu in the UK in any quantity.

Fred

taffer · 06-10-2005

Hey Steph thanks for the link and thanks for the info Paul ! So it's doable after all ! Paul I think the site you mention is the one from Gene M and his classics, isn't it ?

So I guess this puts me with some interesting experiments to do this summer

Do you know if it's needed to wash film prior to development to get rid of the base or something ?

Pls let me know how it goes if you finally take the step, I'll do the same. Will need some tests to find the 'best' exposure and I wonder if times for Diafine are the same with the color emulsion...

Time for sperimentin

Again, thanks !

Oscar

einolu · 06-10-2005

Yeah, I was planning on dunking some generic color film in diafine any day now. If anything at all happeneds I will make a post about it or something, heh.

ps: as for the lomo pictures, can someone attatch them to this thread, I dont feel like registering...

afaceinthecrowd · 06-10-2005

Here you go ... kind of black and blue

dan

wlewisiii · 06-10-2005

I was planning on asking about this too - I have a couple of rolls of expired T400CN that I'd prefer not to pay to get dunked. I'll have to drop them into diafine and just see what happens...

William

Krasnaya_Zvezda · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I was planning on asking about this too - I have a couple of rolls of expired T400CN that I'd prefer not to pay to get dunked. I'll have to drop them into diafine and just see what happens...

William

I am very interested in seeing your results, as I have just acquired my first supply of diafine, and I have some very old rolls of C41 that I can experiment with.

Kin Lau · 06-13-2005

I've dev'd old C41 in Rodinal, very foggy, but workable. Judging by the clothing styles, it was probably shot in the 70's.

wlewisiii · 06-14-2005

Well, that was interesting

I just did a roll of T400CN in diafine. The A solution now has a tint very similar to that of the B solution and the back of the film is obviously that usual color film orange, but the images look good. It's still drying so I'll have to scan something from it later.

Now off to do the roll of Tri-X forgotten about from last summer.

William

Gabriel M.A. · 06-14-2005

Ugly, grainy, icky. Depends on the maker. Do not recommend it. With the passing of years the image will fade.

taffer · 06-14-2005

Well seems you were faster than me finally William ! Btw thanks for the update Gabriel, I already heard of grainy ugly grain with XP2 in Diafine, but didn't know that the image will fade...

wlewisiii · 06-14-2005

I think the fading is the fading inherent in C41 film. None of it IIUC is as stable as Kodachrome much less traditional BW film. I've done a roll of XP2 as well and I'd say this looks a bit better from looking at the negs held up to the kitchen window (of course, being 6x6 that's a bit simpler to do than if it were 35mm

)

William

T_om · 06-14-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I think the fading is the fading inherent in C41 film.

True, for C-41 process film that is processed C-41. In that case you are talking about dye substitution and the fading inherent in such processes.

However, processing C-41 as B&W leaves the silver on the film, it is never bleached out. C-41 should last (if properly fixed and washed) just as long as regular B&W film.

Tom

Gabriel M.A. · 06-14-2005

About three years ago I processed some TN-400 or whatever you call it (I don't like it, can you tell) in D-76, and now it's faded so much it's very flat. It was a test roll, so I've never cried over it.

These, though, come from an XP2 roll I processed in Diafine by accident. Yes; I spooled it from a roll and did not label the canister; time passed and I thought it was plain old TJ-Max 400. ... behold the hall of shame...

wlewisiii · 06-14-2005

Ok, thanks for the information. I did this simply to know if it worked - I was curious as a result of Taffer's OP. So I used a test roll and I do think it looks better than the XP2 did. However, it's not something I intend to do very often...

But for well outdated C41 film that I've not done anything important with, it's an interesting experiment.

William

raytoei@gmail.com · 02-18-2010

I do a bit of XP-2 development in Rodinal (less than 15 rolls), and I like the tone, contrast, grain (lack of) very much.

http://retro.ms11.net/kook.jpg

(The above is untouched, except for resizing, rated at 200)

I am still in the experiment phase and trying out the films, I read somewhere that BW400CN works with Rodinal as well. I just bought 2 rolls ...