Summaron 35/2.8 variations

kermaier · 05-12-2009

Has anyone here ever seen a Leitz Summaron 35/2.8 in LTM that focuses down to .7m?

::Ari

rlouzan · 05-12-2009

Hi Ari,

The 35mm Summaron f2.8 SM CODE is SIMOO (Cat n. 11006)

Regards,
RLouzan

kermaier · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by L39UK

There are 3 versions of this lens.
Screw mount version (SIMOO later code 11006) focusses to 1 metre.
M-mount -M3 version(SIMWO later code 11106) with rangefinder attachment focusses to 0.65 metres.
M-mount -M2 version(SIMOM later code 11306) focusses to 0.7 metres.

That's what I thought. I have one in LTM that focuses to 1m, and one in M-mount (M2 version) that focuses to .7m.

Today I saw one in LTM that focused down to .7m, which I thought didn't exist.

ferider · 05-12-2009

AFAIK, early .7m M mount lenses were made with an LTM mount and an adapter. So maybe what you saw was originally an M2 / 0.7m lens with adapter removed. Not sure if the lens will be collimated correctly on an LTM body if used as is.

The other option is that somebody put a Summaron head in a late screw-mount Summicron barrel. Should be visible though via the DOF scale.

Roland.

kermaier · 05-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

AFAIK, early .7m M mount lenses were made with an LTM mount and an adapter. So maybe what you saw was originally an M2 / 0.7m lens with adapter removed. Not sure if the lens will be collimated correctly on an LTM body if used as is.

The other option is that somebody put a Summaron head in a late screw-mount Summicron barrel. Should be visible though via the DOF scale.

Roland.

Could be an early M-mount with the bayonet flange removed. I didn't notice a hole for the set screw, though.

One thing I did notice, however, was that approx 2 cm of the screw mount cylinder appeared to have been ground away, for some reason -- and that the revealed metal was not brass, but it seemed that the screw thread cylinder was aluminum.

The alteration led me to speculate that I was looking at an M3 version that had the goggles removed and the mount altered so it would focus without them. But the partially aluminum (?) construction seemed even more anomalous.

So, it's either a rare early M2 version missing the M adapter, or some sort of Frankenstein lens, or something as yet unknown.

BTW, I tried it on my R-D1 and it focused fine.

ferider · 05-13-2009

Can you show a photo of the mount, Ari ? If it stems from a goggled version and focuses fine, the RF cam must have been ground as well (for correct focusing, similar, say, to the cam of a Summicron 40/2). Would be interested how that was done.

Thanks !

Roland.

kermaier · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

Can you show a photo of the mount, Ari ? If it stems from a goggled version and focuses fine, the RF cam must have been ground as well (for correct focusing, similar, say, to the cam of a Summicron 40/2). Would be interested how that was done.

Thanks !

Roland.

Sorry, I don't have the lens. I was looking at it in a camera shop yesterday. What's a Summicron 40/2 RF cam look like?

::Ari

ferider · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by kermaier

Sorry, I don't have the lens. I was looking at it in a camera shop yesterday. What's a Summicron 40/2 RF cam look like?

::Ari

It's slanted, Ari. To make a googled Summaron work without googles, one has to correct the focus distance by factor 1.4. This can be done by grinding the cam, in a diagonal (no change at infinity, a couple of millimeters at close focus, linear in between). Hope I explained that right.

Best,

Roland.

bob338 · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

It's slanted, Ari. To make a googled Summaron work without googles, one has to correct the focus distance by factor 1.4. This can be done by grinding the cam, in a diagonal (no change at infinity, a couple of millimeters at close focus, linear in between). Hope I explained that right.

Best,

Roland.

i spoke to Focal Point last week about removing the goggles from a V1 summilux. he said there is no way to adjust or collimate the removed lens to work without the goggles. he's received dozens of them over the years that had the goggles removed by camera store repairmen and there is no way to make it work.
there is a different focusing helical in these lenses and they cannot be altered to work without the eyes.

bob

kermaier · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

It's slanted, Ari. To make a googled Summaron work without googles, one has to correct the focus distance by factor 1.4. This can be done by grinding the cam, in a diagonal (no change at infinity, a couple of millimeters at close focus, linear in between). Hope I explained that right.

Best,

Roland.

No, it didn't look like the Summicron-C cam. It was a straight cam, with a rectangular notch at one point, and the notch had a sort of tongue jutting sideways from one side.

::Ari

kermaier · 05-13-2009

BTW, while I was looking a the lens, I asked the salesman what what was up with the odd 0.7m near focus on an LTM lens as well as the apparent modifications to the mount. He took it off to their in-house vintage lens guy to ask, and he came back without the lens. The expert (?) decided this was some rare aluminum-body variation that he couldn't let go at the price they had it listed for, so he needed to research and re-price it.

ferider · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob338

i spoke to Focal Point last week about removing the goggles from a V1 summilux. he said there is no way to adjust or collimate the removed lens to work without the goggles. he's received dozens of them over the years that had the goggles removed by camera store repairmen and there is no way to make it work.
there is a different focusing helical in these lenses and they cannot be altered to work without the eyes.

bob

The Summaron cam rotates and therefore it can be done. Look at the back of your Summilux. If the RF cam rotates, in theory it's possible. I'm sure John could do it. He might not want to file the cam of a 1000$ lens though ...

Roland.

raid · 05-13-2009

Roland,
Is the Summaron 35/2.8 the only goggled 35mm Leica lens in which the cam rotates?

ferider · 05-13-2009

Don't know, Raid.

bob338 · 05-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

The Summaron cam rotates and therefore it can be done. Look at the back of your Summilux. If the RF cam rotates, in theory it's possible. I'm sure John could do it. He might not want to file the cam of a 1000$ lens though ...

Roland.

i don't have the lens with me today, but i'll check when i get home.

when i spoke to him last week, i asked him a couple of times if he was sure and he insisted that it couldn't be done. he said the only way to convert a goggled lens is to get a helical from a non-goggled lens and replace it in the lens you want to keep.

i would love to be able to do this, i have a goggled V1 summilux and a goggled V1 summicron and they get left home more often than not because of their goggles.

to the original poster...good luck if you decide to buy the lens, it's one of my favorites.

bob

ferider · 05-13-2009

Bob, here is a Summicron mount that you could use: 350192419307@ebay.

US 350 is not cheap, but then again, it's cheaper than to get a v1 non-goggled lens.

Best,

Roland.