paterson reels and washing aids?

mooge · 03-18-2009

Paterson reels... how do you get the film out? I played with mine for a while and had to bend the edges of the film to get it out...

and apparently I need a washing aid- I've got "hypo clearing agent" powder. same thing? and the instructions say that the whole package makes 4.7 litres... but that expires in one day. how much do I mix if I'm only developing one roll?

cheers!
Dragunov.

ItsReallyDarren · 03-18-2009

Paterson plastic reels come apart when you twist them. There's a little bit of resistance to clear the bump stop in the reels and then they come apart.

When you mix the powdered hypo clear into 4.7 liters, you get the stock solution. There should be instructions on the bag on how to mix it into a "working" solution. You use X amount of hypo clear for Y amount of water.

mooge · 03-18-2009

could you be more specific?

that's the working solution...

thanks.

dcsang · 03-18-2009

Grab a patterson reel
Hold one part with your right hand and the other part in your left hand
Twist your hands in opposite directions (one clockwise, the other counter clockwise)
The reel should "split" or "click" and then you can pull the two reels apart.

Cheers,
Dave

dfoo · 03-18-2009

When you say "apparently I need a wash aid" what do you mean? What do you want to use hypo for? You certainly don't need hypo for developing film.

mooge · 03-18-2009

and hey, it came apart... thanks! that's nifty.

well, it's mentioned in the book I got- after the stop bath... "The key to negative (and print) permanence lies in the removal of Hypo when the fixing is complete...)
what happens if I don't use it?

thanks!

dfoo · 03-18-2009

I don't use stop (other than water), or hypo. Fix for 5 minutes and wash using whatever wash technique you use. The one I use is the ilford wash, even though some claim it doesn't remove all the chemicals, my negatives from years back still look fine.

This document http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf from Ilford is good. For a stop I use water for 30 seconds.

Merkin · 03-18-2009

Hypo Clear(ing agent) is basically just a chemical that removes residual fixer faster (and some would say more effectively) than water alone. I use it because it means I don't have to wash my film for nearly as long. With hypo clear, i wash for five to ten minutes, without, i wash at least thirty just to be safe.

Also, you can get a certain type of container which has sort of a second lid which you place inside, on top of the chemical, and then you put a lid on top of the container as well. This keeps the amount of air that can get to the chemical to a bare minimum, which makes the chemicals last longer. You can use these for your stock solutions, and then make your working solutions from that.

Bob Michaels · 03-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragunov

Paterson reels... how do you get the film out?

You certainly do not have to disassemble the reel to get the film out. I have always slipped a finger under the end of film and lifted up out of the tracks. Hold the film end with two fingers of one hand and the reel in the other with two fingers loosely through the hole. Pull. The film just unrolls easily off the reel or slides through the tracks. It is very simple. Do not overcomplicate it.

venchka · 03-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Michaels

You certainly do not have to disassemble the reel to get the film out. I have always slipped a finger under the end of film and lifted up out of the tracks. Hold the film end with two fingers of one hand and the reel in the other with two fingers loosely through the hole. Pull. The film just unrolls easily off the reel or slides through the tracks. It is very simple. Do not overcomplicate it.

Do it this way. Works just fine. Taking the two halves of the reel apart with film loaded is asking for trouble.

Save the hypo clearing agent for fiber prints. Sodium sulfite in the proportions of 2 teaspoons per liter is a cheap substitute for H.C.A.

venchka · 03-19-2009

Photo-Flo in distilled water as a final rinse is more important to film than hypo clearing agent.

How old is your book? Your book may date back to old film days when hardener was added to fixer to toughen the emulsion. Hardener made getting the fixer out more difficult. therefore, H.C.A. was needed. Modern films don't require hardening fixer and therefore wash more easily.

dcsang · 03-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by venchka

<snip>Do it this way. Works just fine. Taking the two halves of the reel apart with film loaded is asking for trouble.</snip>

That depends - taking reels apart is a no brainer when development is complete.

Taking reels apart when film is jammed, in the dark, during loading is a bit more tricky - the plastic reels I've been using do not release the film so easily by "pulling" it out one way or the other. When I have had a jam, it is, actually, a lot easier to take the reels apart (since that's how they are made) and then gently dislodge the film.

Dave

venchka · 03-19-2009

Fair enough Dave. But. What happens to the wet film when you seperate the two haves of the reel and the film is no longer in the channels and it collapses into a wad around the center tube? Hey?

If it was loaded correctly and isn't jammed, it pulls off the reel ever so easily. For me.

dcsang · 03-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by venchka

Fair enough Dave. But. What happens to the wet film when you seperate the two haves of the reel and the film is no longer in the channels and it collapses into a wad around the center tube? Hey?

If it was loaded correctly and isn't jammed, it pulls off the reel ever so easily. For me.

The only time I separate the reels is after I've finished with the wash and before the PhotoFlo being used - prior to hanging the film.

At that point, the film's developed, still wet, and if it "touches" the other parts of the roll of film or sides of the tank, it has never given me a problem (either in ruining the film or portions of the film).

It is then easy to remove the film from the one side of the reel and dip it into the tank with the PhotoFlo solution which does a final "clean" and then I hang it to dry and hope that my two cats are not anywhere near it

Incidentally, the only time I've ever really screwed up film is when trying to use steel reels... that was seriously ugly

Cheers,
Dave

dfoo · 03-19-2009

With respect to steel reels, ditto!

Rhodes · 03-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcsang

The only time I separate the reels is after I've finished with the wash and before the PhotoFlo being used - prior to hanging the film.

At that point, the film's developed, still wet, and if it "touches" the other parts of the roll of film or sides of the tank, it has never given me a problem (either in ruining the film or portions of the film).

It is then easy to remove the film from the one side of the reel and dip it into the tank with the PhotoFlo solution which does a final "clean" and then I hang it to dry and hope that my two cats are not anywhere near it

Unbelievable, same here, but with out using PhotoFo!

nikon_sam · 03-19-2009

I split the reels once I'm done with the Final Wash & Photo-Flo and plop the film back into the tank that's still filled with Photo-Flo and then pull the roll out and hang it to dry...
Been doing it that way since forever...

All that's left is rinsing out the tank and reels and at times run a brush across the reels...
Dry everything and let it sit out to make sure it dries before using it again...

I've been using Paterson tanks since 1977...I've never loaded a steel reel...(actually I don't know how...)

Merkin · 03-19-2009

I pull the reel out by the spindle in the center of the tank, and dunk the film, reel and all, in to the photo flo. I then remove the reel from the spindle, and disassemble the reel with the film still on it. I then remove the film with a thumb and forefinger, hang it, and run my (very clean) index and middle fingers lightly down the film to smooth out the photo-flo. I have never had a problem doing it this way. Just be sure to work the reel plenty of times before you use it to make sure that the mechanism that holds the two halves together isn't very stiff, like they are when they are brand new. I then thoroughly rinse off the two halves of the reels and set them out to dry. Also, ALWAYS dry your reel in two halves, instead of as one unit. It is easy for water to remain trapped inside the reel if you leave it to dry assembled.

mooge · 03-20-2009

I developed my first roll today. it came out pretty good- we'll see when it gets scanned, I suppose. I was pretty sloppy too- sloppy enough to twist open the tank after the fixer! that was a scare...

bout that photo flo- my dad (curious onlooker) sloshed it around, making quite a bit of bubbles... and it seemed to do nothing at all- the water did not run off the negs.

so a big thank you to all who helped!

dcsang · 03-20-2009

The PhotoFlo is meant to assist in drying - it's a drying aid - yes it makes bubbles

Don't worry about opening the tank after the fixer - the developing is "done" after the stop bath is sloshed around on the film - after the fixer has been added it's "hardened" (those are my terms... anyone else can feel free to drop in any of their own) and there's very little concern when it comes to light being "shown" to the film (look at all those quotes !!!

)

Cheers,
Dave