New Epson Rangefinder

[Bill Pierce]

Anyone have further info or thoughts on the new Epson rangefinder?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0902/09...angefinder.asp

[Spleenrippa]

A bigger screen. Oh boy?

[Faintandfuzzy]

Well....there are three other threads in the forum running....one with about 100 posts. Stuff going on at photo.net and dpreview.....but all conjecture at his point.

[Jason808]

If it were closer to $1000 I'd be all over it. The 6MP doesn't bother me as much as the price tag.

[Benjamin Marks]

I think they started at $3000 US first time around. I was a lucky customer at that price. Nice camera; for my purposes the M8 is a better fit. But when the first one came out, there was just one RF game in town for someone who wanted to use Leica glass on a digital camera. When Leica started marketing the M8.2 at its current astronomical price point, they were begging for someone to fill the price niche somewhere below them. I hope the new camera does well.

BTW, I never felt that the 6mp chip held me back when I was using it. Focus accuracy with fast lenses, wide open and battery life were another matter however. I never understood the short battery life thing. With the shutter being wound on mechanically, the thing was basically a photon counter. Why would that take so much juice?

I hope Epson does well with it. The more digi-cams are out there to which I can affix my Leica-mount glass the better, from my perspective. If a market niche establishes itself, maybe I will get the expected life of use out of these gems.



Ben Marks

[johnastovall]

It seems it's only going to be available for the Japanese market.

A shame they have added a newer sensor and at least a 75mm frame line.

At least we can get new batteries.

[BillBingham2]

I think Epson has miss judged the market, badly this time. There is not enough new there to get folks to flip an existing unit for a new one and with the availability of use M8s. The price point I think is way too high for the economy. My gut tells me they will do the price drop quicker than they did last time.

As they sold out last time I am sure they recovered their investment in design and tooling. I read is that they figure they can make a bit more money and cover their investment in support. Not knowing what their margins are this could be a big win from them if the margin is high.

B2 (;->

[jwhitley]

Bill, it leaves me cold. It seems to me many alternatives, both film and digital, are superior at that price point. Staying in the RF realm and within the price point, I could buy a used M8 (recent sale for $2,775 on eBay), or go film with a used Leica or Zeiss Ikon and quite a bit of film + processing + scanning. Staying at 6MP digital, I have a Nikon D40 already. It's not an RF, but it's a more versatile camera and uses old MF Nikon glass beautifully. Staying within the price point but wandering afield, I could go with a Nikon D700, a nice used Hasselblad kit, a Mamiya 7II, a Fuji medium format RF, or any number of other options.

[noimmunity]

I've been holding off saying this in the R-D1x thread, but I just purchased last month a new M8, limited edition, with two year passport warranty, out of the UK for about $2800 shipped.
I had the R-D1 before and have lots of files from it. I prefer the M8 by far. Even at high ISO, where the R-D1 is reputedly better, I just don't see it. In both instances, at high ISO, low light, conversion to B&W is necessary, and I like the way the M8 files look after a little PP with Lightroom and Silver Efex.

[Rob-F]

Bill, given the 1.5x crop factor, I wish they had used a lower magnification finder--maybe around 0.6, or even 0.5--and added framelines for 24/25mm and for 21mm. I could live with 6MP. I hope they have improved the rangefinder--there have been a lot of complaints about it bumping out of alignment and being hard to adjust.

[maddoc]

I had the Epson R-D1s but sold it when I got my first Leica ... For that kind of money I can buy lots of film.

But, I still think it is a good sign, that Epson released a new (upgraded) version of this camera. A) it is an alternative to the M8 (which I don't like because of the missing advance lever and menus) B) we now have three digital platforms (M8, G1, R-D-1xG) to use lenses in M-mount with a digital imaging recording devices, good for the lens market, IMHO.

[Rob-F]

But it seems to me that the G1 is a four-thirds camera, with only a half-size sensor and a 2x crop factor. If that is true, then it does not seem like serious competition for the M8 or R-d1 (x).

[Jamie Pillers]

And there are more coming from Olympus and Panasonic... micro four-thirds bodies that accept M and LTM glass. :-)

[Keith]

As much as I like the Epson I think it's colour performance is substantially behind the M8. I'd own a cheap used RD-1 as a backup to my Leica but I really think they needed to do more with the sensor ... as before they won't set the world alight sales wise and possibly even less so this time around!

[Bill58]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

It seems it's only going to be available for the Japanese market.

A shame they have added a newer sensor and at least a 75mm frame line.

At least we can get new batteries.

The Japanese market? There ain't no such thing if current news reports are accurate.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Bill Pierce

Anyone have further info or thoughts on the new Epson rangefinder?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0902/09...angefinder.asp

I can't stand chimping and histogram worshipers...a new neurosis like the old "must center the meter needle". Learn photography, not just the camera.

The LCD cannot be used like a view finder without "live view", so I would turn it inwards after setting up the camera. Besides, white balance, format choices, battery/shots remaining are all available via dials or knobs...the old fashioned way. Whether the LCD is a 2" or 2.5" has no meaning...unless you have to chimp or study the histogram after every shot. [No one frames a nice histogram for the wall.]

If in doubt about exposure, just bracket, film is free... The decisive moment is long gone after finished finish studying the histogram.

A 2GB SD chip is good enough for 200 Raw Files or 5+ rolls, and about matching the battery life...so carry a spare or two [in your pocket]. It cannot be such a hardship to change into a fresh SD or a battery in the field. Given that thought, a SD-HC facility has no real meaning.

So, what else is so important about the RD1x?

Now that I know what the "new" RD1x is, I am actually looking to pick up a good used RD1 or RD1s...hoping the trade-up crowd will indeed trade up just because.

And I will select a 28mm lens making it a one camera/lens (42mm equivalent) ideal travel outfit. The lens is likely to be a Elmarit 28mm/2.8 [smallest, protruding a mere 3cm without hood].

RD1 at 6 Mp is big enough for my 1080p plasma [changing gallery], a mere 2 Mp at 1,920 x 1080. No printing necessary. An occasional 300dpi 8 x 10 outsourced cannot be such a financial hardship.

[larmarv916]

[quote=BillBingham2;1001858]I think Epson has miss judged the market, badly this time. There is not enough new there to get folks to flip an existing unit for a new one and with the availability of use M8s. The price point I think is way too high for the economy. My gut tells me they will do the price drop quicker than they did last time.

Well "Bill" you have "nailed" down the fatal flaw of Epson as a business culture. Also..everyone else is looking at the same dangers of retail sales falling off the cliff. This is classic wrong idea at the wrong price...with wrong time to introduce a product. All data for retail sales, points to the worst Q3-Q4 or Christmas Season in 50 years! So as the lack of sales across the board for Epson products grips the company for all products. Crunch time.

This situation will be hitting all major consumer product producers of "discretionary" spending for some time. Also the higher the price the brand the worse it will be! the guy who needs to get "canned" is the clown at the top who's been on vacation for 07-08 and all of 09...Jobless recovery means no recovery and Zero spending !

All the Best...Laurance

[Harry Lime]

Can't Epson just put us all out of our misery and stick a modern 10-12MP chip in this thing and price it at $3000? If I remember correctly it is using the same sensor or one similar to what was in the Nikon D100(!).

Also improve the RF unit and battery live and we'll call it a day.

Like someone else already said, it's the same old wine in a new bottle and sensors don't get better with age. I don't see them getting a lot of upgrade buyers and given the specs it's a hard sell to anyone who isn't rolling in cash and can afford to buy one, simply because they want one.

It's a shame, because if you want a digital RF your only other option is the M8.2 or the supposedly soon to be released M9. Both options cost considerably more and therefore really aren't a viable option for most people. At $3000 the Epson is competing with used M8 bodies, in which case it looks less desirable, regardless of the quirks of the Leica. The Epson will be even less attractive once the M9 comes out and M8.2 bodies come down in price. If the Epson was better spec'd it would have more of a chance.

I've almost given up hope for a CL-D from Leica, so we're in a tough spot.

For now I'm sticking to my film Leicas. $3000 would buy me a nice used IMACON scanner...

[Tuolumne]

I believe many R-D1s were sold as refurb units through the Epson web site for $1500. At that price the camera was a deal, especially in the day. At $3K, in today's market, it is really over-priced and under-performing. Wait for the refurbs to go to $1500 again, and it's a good buy. At $3K it will sit on dealer's shelves.

/T

[Bike Tourist]

Epson, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Voigtländer, Sigma . . . heck, Ricoh . . . anybody. Just give me the CMOS in my Nikon D700 nestled within a competent RF body. That's all. No zillions of "features" included just because you can. No 17 ways to autofocus, in fact no autofocus really necessary. Eliminate the back screen if you want to in order to get the price down. I never use it anyway. No 150 menu item parameters. I will confess, I never obsess over white balance. If I don't like the way it looks I can correct in PS. My camera does not have to be a portable photostudio.

Got that, manufacturers? What's that? You didn't hear me?

Oh.

[januaryman]

Originally Posted by Bike Tourist

Epson, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Voigtländer, Sigma . . . heck, Ricoh . . . anybody. Just give me the CMOS in my Nikon D700 nestled within a competent RF body. That's all. No zillions of "features" included just because you can. No 17 ways to autofocus, in fact no autofocus really necessary. Eliminate the back screen if you want to in order to get the price down. I never use it anyway. No 150 menu item parameters. I will confess, I never obsess over white balance. If I don't like the way it looks I can correct in PS. My camera does not have to be a portable photostudio.

Got that, manufacturers? What's that? You didn't hear me?

Oh.

Well said - what I've felt for quite a long time, but never put into words. I'm glad you did. Now if someone out there would just listen to that advice....