Why oh why?

ywenz · 02-26-2009

The whole point of the RF experience is quality in compact size. So why did Cosina put the strap loops at much a bad location on the R2A!!! With my compact, yet lovely CV 35 f/2.5 Pancake 2 lens, the camera is horribly balanced and the camera back will NOT lay flat against my body. It totally ruins the picture taking experience! And no, I do not wish to add a handgrip or buy a heavier lens to resolve this balance issue.

Why can't it just "work"?

Phantomas · 02-26-2009

Hehe, yep, a common discomfort experienced by many users, but not by me. That’s because mine came with trigger-winder from the start.
Not to endorse extra money spending, but getting a sidegrip or trigger-winder will solve your problem. Plus both make holding the camera more comfortable.

maddoc · 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ywenz

The whole point of the RF experience is quality in compact size.

... buy a Leica, problem solved.

ywenz · 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantomas

Hehe, yep, a common discomfort experienced by many users, but not by me. That’s because mine came with trigger-winder from the start.
Not to endorse extra money spending, but getting a sidegrip or trigger-winder will solve your problem. Plus both make holding the camera more comfortable.

A grip will also not allow me to use the half case that came with the camera..

I simply do not understand why they placed the loops there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddoc

... buy a Leica, problem solved.

Use to own a Leica M6 kit.. figured it wasn't worth the money so I sold it.. perhaps that is the price of admission for properly positioned strap loops.

Austerby · 02-26-2009

They didn't "place" them there - they inherited them from the SLR chassis that the Bessa is based upon. They weren't a problem for the balance of the SLR.

There are a number of sources on the interweb describing the genesis of the model and its inheritance.

maddoc · 02-26-2009

Sine the CV 35/2.5 P II (?) and Bessa are not to heavy, how about a wrist strap / or Y-strap ?

pau3 · 02-26-2009

Do you mean that your camera is hanging around your neck or shoulder instead of
being in your hands while shooting?

Bassism · 02-26-2009

I'll second the Y strap. I've been using my home made version with all of my cameras and I absolutely love it. No balance issues with anything I've tried it on, and it's more comfortable and more conducive to shooting to boot.

ywenz · 02-26-2009

pau: obviously the neck straps do not pose a balance problem when the cam is held in my hand.

Inherited the design from SLR or not, they obviously didn't retain the mirror box from the SLR, why would they have retained the strap loops?

pesphoto · 02-26-2009

Have you tried adding a side grip? It seems to help.

ywenz · 02-26-2009

Hi pes: Yes that what I gathered, but why even have to get grip to achieve such a fundamental characteristic of camera?

pesphoto · 02-26-2009

is it that extreme with the R2A? MAybe velcro it to your chest

.ken · 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by pau3

Do you mean that your camera is hanging around your neck or shoulder instead of
being in your hands while shooting?

i second that

Al Kaplan · 02-26-2009

Stick a heavy 85mm on any camera and watch the balance shift too far the other way. My Leica M3 has end mounted lugs while the M2 bodies have them canted forward. We've all been wondering about that for 51 years now. If you can't be with the cant you love then love the cant you're with.

Then there's alway the choice of the two lug M5 if you really want to learn how to curse.

ywenz · 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by pesphoto

is it that extreme with the R2A? MAybe velcro it to your chest

It is that extreme and it would be better if the camera stays in that position, but it doesn't. When you walk or move, the camera bottom rocks against your chest and pivots around the strap attachment loop..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Kaplan

Stick a heavy 85mm on any camera and watch the balance shift too far the other way. My Leica M3 has end mounted lugs while the M2 bodies have them canted forward. We've all been wondering about that for 51 years now. If you can't be with the cant you love then love the cant you have.

I wouldn't complain if a telescope attached to my Bessa R2A doesn't balance properly.. However, I'm complaining about a nice little 35mm lens to go with the nice little R2A body for a compact package which the RF is made for.

BillBingham2 · 02-26-2009

Trigger Winder solves all your problems. It will allow you to hang your camera over your right shoulder in a quick draw fashion. If it fit the L I would have had one on my L. I love the accessory for the way it allows a camera to hang. IMHO much better.

It will assist with combing your hair in the morning, will shine your shoes and will make you more attractive to the opposite sex!

B2 (;->

pesphoto · 02-26-2009

hmmm, well my R isnt as extreme, but I dont hang it around my neck. ITs either hangin on my shoulder or usually I wrap the strap around my hand and carry it that way.

ywenz · 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by photomoof

Actually you have it backwards, the Bessa cameras have the lugs out in front -- so with a small lens the bottom tilts away from your body.

The Cosina/Zeiss Ikon ZI pretty much corrects this issue, however they are not like the Leica M.

doh ur right.. i do have it wrong.. new pics up loaded now.

Al Kaplan · 02-26-2009

pesphoto has the right idea. I do the same thing, a camera or two hanging from my shoulders, another dangling from a wrap or two of "neck" strap around my wrist.

ferider · 02-26-2009

I used to have a Cosina-made OM2000. The lower part of the body was almost identical to the Bessa R's, including shutter, fim rails, etc., and also strap lugs.

So I suspect it's for historical reasons. With an SLR lens the OM2000 was very well balanced ....

Roland.

Tom A · 02-26-2009

I once asked about the strap lugs on the Bessa Rf's. The answer I got was that as the designs harked back to the various SLR's that Cosina made for other manufacturers, the strap lug placement was "fixed" as a change would mean a completely new body casting and back door. Part of the problem is the swing open back door where the locking mechanism and the hinge precludes a shifting of the lugs. The additional cost for a new casting and new body cover would have raised the price of the Bessa considerably.
I tend to use the grips and winders to balance the body, unless I put a heavier lens on it (35/1.2, 50f1.5 or the Summicron 75f2 on the Bessa IIIM/A).

fretbuzzard · 02-26-2009

I don't own a Bessa, but has anyone tried one of Gordy's vertical lug and tripod socket mount straps on one? I'm curious whether this might solve the "canting" problem or create a whole different set of issues due to the centrally located tripod socket.

http://www.electricedge.com/gordy_s_...vert/index.htm

furcafe · 02-26-2009

I have the same problem w/the Konica Hexar RF/Contax G2 bodies, which have a similar front-oriented strap lug position. Not sure why the designers of the Hexar RF/G2 chose that position, since they weren't working off a legacy SLR body, @ least officially.

My guess is that even had they not been forced to work w/legacy bodies as a template, the designers of all these cameras were so used to designing SLRs that they didn't realize how much smaller & lighter most RF lenses are & how that affects the overall balance. From the looks of it, Cosina appears to have @ least partially learned their lesson w/the Zeiss Ikon, but I'll let an actual user/owner weigh in (no pun intended).

EDIT: Having read Tom's mention of how the swing open back door of modern cameras affects the lug placement & looking @ photos of other RFs (e.g., Canon P), I'm thinking that may be the most significant engineering reason for the forward placement. However, I'm not sure why this couldn't be addressed by simply moving the lugs higher up (but still on the sides), as on a ZI Contax or Nikon RF, though I guess that would force the relocation of the flash sync sockets on some cameras.

Warren T. · 02-26-2009

I know that you want to use the half case, but a Bessa side grip really did solve the problem on my Bessa R. I use it mostly with a 35mm Skopar, and the way it hung while slung on my shoulder used to bother me too. As a bonus, the grip also helps ergonomically too.

--W

Tom A · 02-26-2009

EDIT: Having read Tom's mention of how the swing open back door of modern cameras affects the lug placement & looking @ photos of other RFs (e.g., Canon P), I'm thinking that may be the most significant engineering reason for the forward placement. However, I'm not sure why this couldn't be addressed by simply moving the lugs higher up (but still on the sides), as on a ZI Contax or Nikon RF, though I guess that would force the relocation of the flash sync sockets on some cameras.[/quote]

I think the reason for having the strap lugs in the bodycasting, rather than have them on the top-plate is because you often have to remove the top plate to access components on the "top" of the camera for service. It would also put a lot of stress on what is usually some rather thin brass or diecast material. One would have to cast support post on the inside top for that and each time you serviced the camera, the strap lugs would have to be removed and add to the time/cost for service.