UK terrorists

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by kevin m

OMG, I have that LP! "Bed and Breakfast Man" is a fave.

Chipmunks are go!

More seriously, I always thought it would be Huxley, not Orwell, whose distopian worldview would come to fruition.

Oh well, it doesn't matter. I'll probably get hit by a car anyway.

[kevin m]

I'll probably get hit by a car anyway.

Probably by some un-employed, "Joe-the-Plumber" type speeding to get his Soma fix.

[Silva Lining]

Originally Posted by bmattock

I'll probably get hit by a car anyway.

Driven by an undercover law enforcement officer on his way to investigate a suspicious photographer no doubt....

[Matus]

It seems that fear of "invisible enemy" is much more effective in destroying structure of modern society than open violence or even war. Is our pure material existence really the most precious thing we posses? It sure is important, but not the only one ...

.. I am just too tired I guess.

[sojournerphoto]

I actually find that shocking - and it's supposed to make me feel secure?

[Lilserenity]

People do seem to have become the possessions and materials they have, rather than their sentient being itself...

But to use a trite cliché from Roosevelt, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

And as a mechanism to psychologically control behaviour, it's more effective...

That said, I won't let my life be ruled by fear. My time will be up when it's up and there is little I can do to change that fate but to walk towards it but on that journey live as much as I can - what will be will be...

[AJShepherd]

I blame Tony Blair - if he'd not crawled so deeply up George Bush's arse you need an endoscope to see him none of this might ever have happened.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by AJShepherd

I blame Tony Blair - if he'd not crawled so deeply up George Bush's arse you need an endoscope to see him none of this might ever have happened.

Ya but where would the peace process be now if he hadn’t taken over as special envoy for Middle East…….

[JohnL]

Originally Posted by ruby.monkey

That poster covers half the students in the UK.

I would guess that at least 99% of the civilized world is in at least three of those five categories.

[JohnL]

Originally Posted by Micky D

We're all subjects of her majesty.
We have to pay a tax if we want to vote.

You have to pay even if you don't want to vote !!!

[fgianni]

LMAO .

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Ya but where would the peace process be now if he hadn’t taken over as special envoy for Middle East…….

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by fgianni

LMAO .

I nicked it off the radio I think

[Beemermark]

Originally Posted by photogdave

It seems totally unbelievable. However, if you had the PM and the rest of the government read 1984, or watch the film along with Brazil and V For Vendetta, I'm sure it would be totally lost on them.
They probably have no idea of the monster they are creating.

Your government has read 1984, they are not idiots, and they are probably using 1984 as a playbook for absolute power.

It's no better in the US. Under the guise of finical crisis the government wants to triple in size to "save" us.

[Ade-oh]

I hate to pour a bucket of cold water over this particular hysteria fest but I live in the centre of London and routinely carry at least one camera everywhere I go. I have never been stopped, interfered with, questioned or anything else.

Last year, in response to a similar thread, I took a walk through London photographing a number of high security locations, including the headquarters' of MI5 and MI6; 10 Downing Street (including the rear entrances); the Ministry of Defence; New Scotland Yard etc etc. I wasn't stopped or questioned, and actually the policemen at several locations smiled for the camera and posed for me.

The fact is that over the last 40 years there have been a number of serious terrorist attacks in London, some of which might have been foiled had not Londoners done what they often do, and looked the other way when people were behaving oddly or suspiciously.

And Olsen, as for the Met Police being one of the most corrupt police forces in Europe, you must be joking? I don't doubt there are a fair number of corrupt police in London but I can honestly say that none has ever asked me directly for a bribe, unlike policemen I've encountered in Brussels, Paris, Bordeaux, Prague, Athens, Venice, Krakow and Sofia.

Britain isn't perfect but it is nowhere near as bad as some of the frankly infantile posts in this thread are making out.

[migtex]

Fight back! Keep on shooting!

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=839021

[Michael Markey]

There was clarification of these issues on BBC Law in Action program yesterday. They were emphatic that the authorities only had just cause to question if they believed that you were engaged in either criminal or terrorist activity and had no power to confiscate camera or film unless they had a court order.The fact that the program devoted time to these concerns and clarified the legal position would suggest that there are a few issues causing concern at present. The NUJ certainly seem to think so. It is equally clear from Ade -oh that it is by no means inevitable that you will be stopped.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

Bill, (bmattock) I think you're right about Orwell's 'predictions', but from a technical point of view I think Huxley wins. How many computers now have inbuilt cameras and how hard would it be for the security services to turn them on remotely?

This post is corrected for your convenience by : Mini True

you will never know if you don't read the book

[Kevin]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/pap_the_police/

On Monday, the issue will be defiantly, peacefully raised as a mass demonstration, supported by comedian Mark Thomas, converges on New Scotland Yard to assert the right of snappers to take pictures.

Another Link:
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=839141

[chibaken]

/Passes Ade-oh another bucket of water:
Too many people are working themselves into a state of hysteria about this when in reality the number of people actually stopped and searched are likely to be miniscule compared to the volume of photographers out there. Is this the Daily Mail? How many of you here have been stopped and searched? How many actually live in London? Thought so.
Like Ade, I too live in central London, 15 years now, near the London Eye (allegedly a "notorious" site for police vs photographer conflict), and I've never been stopped. Part of the problem I believe is that some people view the law as having set boundaries that they can, in some cases must, wander through unhindered because the law says so, when in actual fact common sense is the more mature, sensible policy. It's like driving on icy roads ay 60mph; just because the law says you can doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
You have to concede that the police have a tough job, whether you agree that we are under a terrorist threat or not. They have to maintain a fine balance all of the time; so it doesn't help when a camera-wielding amateur-lawyer starts waving his lovingly-laminated, well-worn "UK Photographer Rights" document in front of his face as he set up his tripod up in Parliament Square. There a copper one of the London Flickr forums that gave a view from his perspective - it's very interesting.
What get me most though are the naive conspiracies, Orwellian fantasies, the sarcasm, and plain untruths that often get spouted off in these debates. Most corrupt police force in Europe? The Government using 1984 as a playbook for power? Sources please?
You lot really dearly don't know how good you've got it.

[fgianni]

Right, we have not one but TWO photographers testifying that they have never been stopped!
It so obviously follows it's all hysteria and all the other photographers in the country can rest assured, of course all the reports of stops and searches and equipment seized are Orwellian fantasies.

I hereby testify that I have never been mugged, and can find at least a dozen other people that can testify the same, so it is obvious that crime does not exist.

Oh please!

[photogdave]

I don't know about who has been stopped and who hasn't etc. but those poster were sure scary!

[skinnyvoice]

Originally Posted by chibaken

How many of you here have been stopped and searched? How many actually live in London? Thought so.

Too many assumptions. I live in central London, photograph regularly for a political journalist and I have been 'stopped' several times and know of many others.

Here is one from 2006



So jail me...

[__hh]

Originally Posted by skinnyvoice

Too many assumptions. I live in central London, photograph regularly for a political journalist and I have been 'stopped' several times and know of many others.

Here is one from 2006



So jail me...

Is that also a video camera mounted on top of that "Gore Street" sign ?

Good shot

[Silva Lining]

I live in London, have done for 20 years, during which time, one of my favourite pastimes has been walking around town photographing anything and everything. I have been questioned many times by police and asked not to photograph certain things. If I have been on 'private property', I generally apologies and move on. If not and in a public place I ask the policeman why, usually they come up with a response along the lines of 'anti-terrorism legislation', tell me that they can take my camera etc....all of which we know are wrong. I contest those points to which the usual response is, 'We are here to protect the public... we can arrest you if you don't comply".

Given the fact that I have two young children under 4, a career and a big mortgage to pay, I don't feel that can take the risk (and to be honest don't have the balls) to go through the 'I'm gonna get arrested to prove a point process'. Morally that is wrong, I know, but there are practicalities of life to deal with.....

[chrismearns]

Relax people, those are lovely kind eyes looking down on us.
Its puzzling to us, must be bizarre to everyone else. The thing to remember is that alongside this authoritarian streak is amazing levels of liberty protected by the law. Where else can you publish magazines that openly call for the killing of non UK politicians and know that you have free recourse to legal teams to protect your right to do it? When you get these things wrong, you really find yourselves in strange territory - where you can be investigated by the police for things that are trivial beyond belief (one 10 year old calling another 10 year old "gay") while receiving the jailhouse riff raff of another country under EU 'freedom of movement' legislation.

The other thing is that the other guy's surveillance state seems much more sinister than our own. For example the stateside requirement for carrying personal identification combined with the police's right to see it and know who you are and where you live? I think it is doubtful that our CCTV dedicated government will ever get that level of state power over the individual.