List of Sonnar Lenses

[Hacker]

I'm trying to compile a list of LTM/M-mount Sonnar lenses (and earlier Ernostar lenses), and I'm hoping the more learned ones can help. This is what I have so far.

"The Sonnar is a photographic lens design, invented by Dr. Ludwig Bertele in 1924 and originally patented by Carl Zeiss, notable for its relatively light weight, simple design and fast aperture. The name "Sonnar" is derived from the German word "Sonne", meaning sun. It was given this name because its large aperture (f/2.0) made it considerably brighter than many other lenses available at the time."

Source: : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnar

Sonnars were made in all focal lengths from 40-250mm, where compact size was also important - primarily as rangefinder camera lenses. Sonnar-types with about 50mm focal length were made by Carl Zeiss Jena with f/1.5 and f/2.0, after WWII by Zeiss-Opton/ Oberkochen as well, up to f/1.4 (prototypes), Steinheil (Quinon-I 2.0) u.a., in Japan by Nippon Kogaku/ Nikon (1.5, 1.4), Seiki Kogaku/ Canon (1.5), Zunow (1.3, 1.1) and Asahi-Optical/ Pentax (2.0).

As the owner of the trademark "Sonnar" uses the term for a whole series of lenses, including some pretty clear Gaussian types like the ZM 2.0/85 for the Zeiss-Ikon RF camera, it's hard to define what makes a Sonnar in a clear optical sense. With regards to design history a Sonnar-type is a triplet derivated, high speed objective consisting of a small number of optical groups (preferable two) and at least one cemented group of three elements.

Source: http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Biotar_en.html

Please post your pictures of the lens and pictures taken by the lenses!

Info can be found here also http://www.antiquecameras.net/sonnarlens.html

1) Zunow 5cm f/1.1 ...........................$4000
2) MS Optical 50mm f/1.3 ...........................$1100
3) Zunow 5cm f/1.3 ...........................$6000
4) Nikkor 5cm f/1.4 ...........................$450
5) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5 ...........................$2000
6) Canon 50mm f/1.5 ...........................$450
7) Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5 .................... $135
8) Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 M-mount ...........................$900
9) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM ...........................$1000
10) Zeiss 5.8cm f/1.5 ...........................$1000
11) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5 ...........................$1000
12) Nikkor 8.5cm f/1.5 ...........................$950
13) Nikkor 5cm f/2 ........................ $300
14) Steinheil Quinon 50/2 ...........................$400
15) Tanaka Kogaku Tanar 5cm f/1.5 ...................... $2000
16) Tanaka Kogaku Tanar 5cm f/1.8 ...................... $1500
17) Zeiss 5cm f/2 LTM ...........................$750
18) Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 ...................... $50
19) Jupiter 17 50mm /f2 ...................... $50
20) Tanaka Kogaku Tanar 5cm f/2 ...................... $350
21) Misuzu Kogaku Altair/Altanon 5cm f/2 (Tanar clone) ...................... $350
22) Nikkor 8.5cm f/2 (Black costs more)...........................$300 (Chrome)/$1050 (Black)
23) Zeiss 8.5cm f/2 LTM ...........................$1050
24) Zeiss ZM 85mm Sonnar f/2 ...........................$2650
25) Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 ..................... $100
26) Nikkor 10.5cm /2.5 ............................... $300
27) Ernostar 40mm f/2.8
28) Rollei 40mm f/2.8 ...........................$600
29) M-Hexanon 90mm f/2.8 ...........................$450
30) Contax G 90mm f/2.8 (M-mount conversion) ...........................$685
31) Nikkor 13.5cm f/3.5 ............................ $150
32) Zeiss 7.5cm f/4 ............................ $625
33) Carl Zeiss Jena 13.5cm f/4 T Sonnar ............................ $500
34) Nikkor 13.5cm f/4 ............................ $800
35) Jupiter 11 135mm f/4 ............................ $75

[bennyng]

Checking off the lenses in your collection again?

Cheers,

[laptoprob]

Steinheil Quinon 50/2

[dexdog]

The 135/4 lens for the Contax was a Sonnar, but the prescription is different then the shorter focal lengths. I think that it is called a J-11 in FSU manufacture, available in LTM.

Also, the rare Olympia Sonnar, 180/2.8. Not sure if this was ever available in LTM, though

[laptoprob]

Konica's 90/2,8 for the Hexar also seems to be a Sonnar.

[ferider]

The Hex 90/2.8 is an Ernostar, very similar signature. But then modern Zeiss "Sonnars", like the Contax-G 90/2.8 (can be modified to M mount) and Hasselblad 150mm Sonnar are Ernostars, too.

The Nikkor 135/3.5 is a Sonnar. So is the 85/1.5, I believe.

And then, of course, there is the ZM 50/1.5. The new ZM 85/2, even though labeled as Sonnar by Zeiss is a true double-Gauss design.

Simlar 50/1.5 is a Sonnar, too ? Brian would know.

Best,

Roland.

[furcafe]

IIRC, the 90/2.8 Hexanon, like the 90/2.8 "Sonnar" for Kyocera Contax G, is technically an Ernostar (precursor design to the Sonnar, most famously seen on the Ermanox, but not identical).

Originally Posted by laptoprob

Konica's 90/2,8 for the Hexar also seems to be a Sonnar.

[Hacker]

1) Zunow 5cm f/1.1
2) MS Optical 50mm f/1.3
3) Nikkor 5cm f/1.4
4) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5
5) Canon 5cm f/1.5
6) Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5
7) Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 M-mount
8) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM
9) Simlar 50mm f/1.5
10) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5
11) Nikkor 8.5cm f/1.5
12) Nikkor 5cm f/2
13) Steinheil Quinon 50/2
14) Jupiter 8 50mm f/2
15) Nikkor 8.5cm f/2
16) Zeiss 8.5cm f/2 LTM
17) Zeiss 85mm Sonnar f/2
18) Jupiter 9 85mm f/2
19) Nikkor 10.5cm /2.5
20) Rollei 40mm f/2.8
21) Nikkor 135/3.5
22) J-11 135mm f/4

[Hacker]

Thanks, it seems more confusing than ever. I guess the modern ZM lenses just used the Sonnar designation for marketing then...or was it for improvements. SO confusing.....

[furcafe]

True. Also, it is my understanding (I think I was originally told this by Peter Evans on the photo.net Leica Forum) that the Tokyo Optical 5cm/1.5 Simlar is not a Sonnar, but rather a unique symmetrical design in the same vein as the original Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?p=854976

Originally Posted by Hacker

Thanks, it seems more confusing than ever. I guess the modern ZM lenses just used the Sonnar designation for marketing then...or was it for improvements. SO confusing.....

[raid]

Isn't the Nikkor 5cm 2.0 also a Sonnar?

[furcafe]

It's #12 on his list.

Originally Posted by raid

Isn't the Nikkor 5cm 2.0 also a Sonnar?

[raid]

Oops. Yes, you are right. I saw the 50 1.5 and 50 1.4 ...

[Hacker]

I believe that the Fujinon 50mm f/2 is a hybrid, the front is a Sonnar while the back is a Planar. Info on the Fujinon lenses are so scarce.

[Hacker]

If given the choice of only one Sonnar, which would you choose:

1) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5
2) Canon 5cm f/1.5
3) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM
4) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5 LTM

[dexdog]

the canon, no question

[ferider]

An early Nikkor 50/1.4 (first batch including 5005xxx) modified for .7m close focus.

[rover]

Originally Posted by Hacker

If given the choice of only one Sonnar, which would you choose:

1) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5
2) Canon 5cm f/1.5
3) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM
4) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5 LTM

The Canon, or Nikkor 50/2 which did not make our list.

[crawdiddy]

I suppose it's implicit that you are excluding Leica lenses, for the sake of this discussion, but why?

[monochromejrnl]

Originally Posted by dexdog

the canon, no question

ditto - my favourite LTM lens, excellent build quality, optical signature is classic sonnar and with the exception of the FSU lenses, the least expensive 50mm 1.4/1.5 sonnar

[raid]

What are the current RFF market values? Please feel free to attach estimates below:

1) Zunow 5cm f/1.1
2) MS Optical 50mm f/1.3
3) Nikkor 5cm f/1.4
4) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5
5) Canon 5cm f/1.5 ...........................$300
6) Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5 .................... $100
7) Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 M-mount
8) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM
9) Simlar 50mm f/1.5
10) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5
11) Nikkor 8.5cm f/1.5
12) Nikkor 5cm f/2 ........................ $300
13) Steinheil Quinon 50/2
14) Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 ...................... $30
15) Nikkor 8.5cm f/2 .......................... $300
16) Zeiss 8.5cm f/2 LTM
17) Zeiss 85mm Sonnar f/2
18) Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 ..................... $100
19) Nikkor 10.5cm /2.5 ............................... $300
20) Rollei 40mm f/2.8
21) Nikkor 135/3.5 ............................ $150
22) J-11 135mm f/4 .................................... $75

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by rover

The Canon, or Nikkor 50/2 which did not make our list.

Are you referring to the Canon 50mm f/1.4? Is it a Sonnar? I thought the Canon range had only one Sonnar, the 50mm f/1.5.

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by crawdiddy

I suppose it's implicit that you are excluding Leica lenses, for the sake of this discussion, but why?

Is the Xenon/Summarit considered a Sonnar clone? If it is, I will add it.

[Hacker]

Updated on the first page.

1) Zunow 5cm f/1.1 ...........................$4000
2) MS Optical 50mm f/1.3 ...........................$1100
3) Nikkor 5cm f/1.4 ...........................$450
4) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5 ...........................$2000
5) Canon 50mm f/1.5 ...........................$300
6) Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5 .................... $100
7) Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 M-mount ...........................$900
8) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM ...........................$1500
9) Simlar 50mm f/1.5 ...........................$300
10) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5 ...........................$300
11) Nikkor 8.5cm f/1.5 ...........................$950
12) Nikkor 5cm f/2 ........................ $300
13) Steinheil Quinon 50/2
14) Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 ...................... $30
15) Nikkor 8.5cm f/2 .......................... $300
16) Zeiss 8.5cm f/2 LTM ...........................$2350
17) Zeiss 85mm Sonnar f/2
18) Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 ..................... $100
19) Nikkor 10.5cm /2.5 ............................... $300
20) Rollei 40mm f/2.8 ...........................$600
21) Nikkor 135/3.5 ............................ $150
22) J-11 135mm f/4 .................................... $75

Originally Posted by raid

What are the current RFF market values? Please feel free to attach estimates below:

1) Zunow 5cm f/1.1
2) MS Optical 50mm f/1.3
3) Nikkor 5cm f/1.4
4) Nikkor 5cm f/1.5
5) Canon 5cm f/1.5 ...........................$300
6) Jupiter 3 50mm f/1.5 .................... $100
7) Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 M-mount
8) Zeiss 5cm f/1.5 LTM
9) Simlar 50mm f/1.5
10) Zeiss 6cm f/1.5
11) Nikkor 8.5cm f/1.5
12) Nikkor 5cm f/2 ........................ $300
13) Steinheil Quinon 50/2
14) Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 ...................... $30
15) Nikkor 8.5cm f/2 .......................... $300
16) Zeiss 8.5cm f/2 LTM
17) Zeiss 85mm Sonnar f/2
18) Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 ..................... $100
19) Nikkor 10.5cm /2.5 ............................... $300
20) Rollei 40mm f/2.8
21) Nikkor 135/3.5 ............................ $150
22) J-11 135mm f/4 .................................... $75

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by laptoprob

Steinheil Quinon 50/2

According to this thread, the Quinon is a double-Gauss design:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=17021

Is this the same thing?