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Micro 4/3 as backup for M8
Old 10-17-2008   #1
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Micro 4/3 as backup for M8

This new camera, Lumix G 1 from Panasonic seems interesting. I wonder if it would be possible to make an adapter to fit the M series lenses? If so, this could be a cheap back up for any M8 user. I hear alot of talk about the 4/3 system and how because the distance from lens to sensor is much smaller than DSLR's, it may be possible to use M lenses on the new cameras. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Old 10-19-2008   #2
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And how do you propose to focus? Surely not with that little screen on the back?
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Old 10-19-2008   #3
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It would be kind of funny, though, to see a Noct hanging off one of those tiny Micro 4/3's cameras!
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Old 10-19-2008   #4
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wait one year: "Leica CL-D" with 4/3 micro System
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Old 10-20-2008   #5
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Quote:
...but as for focussing -- you do it with the viewfinder, not the LCD, like any manual focus.
I believe the idea behind the micro-4/3rd's format is to dispense with the optical viewfinder altogether, while permitting the APS-sized sensor in a smaller body size, with interchangeable lenses using a different lens-mount format; at least that's what the micro-4/3rd's website says.

So there's no optical viewfinder with which to focus through. You have to use a "camcorder-style" color LCD viewfinder, or the back LCD screen.

As for the possibility of M-mount adapters for the new camera format (yes, it's a new format, with a new lens mount with electronic contacts) the camera body normally relies on aperture position feedback from the lens to help calculate proper exposure; you'd therefore have to rely on totally manual exposure settings, with manual focus.

Since the new micro-4/3rd's format is still essentially vapor-ware (I have yet to read a personal account from an actual owner, just pre-release publicity reviews), it's still too early to tell if this new format will actually function as a practical manual rangefinder backup to the M8, especially given that they will most likely be designed to function as automatic cameras, and not optimized for manual controls. It all depends on how individual models of cameras are actually implemented, design-wise.

It's way too premature to be making blanket statements like "the micro-4/3rd's format will function as a digital M-mount camera"; it would be equivalent to saying that "all SLR's do this or that," while having never seen an SLR.

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Last edited by JoeV : 10-20-2008 at 04:56.
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Old 10-20-2008   #6
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I use an Olympus 4/3 with a range of alternative lenses inluding Pentax Takumar and Leica R. It is really quite practical, the live view which zooms to x7 or x10 gives extreme focussing accuracy, generally aperture priority lets the camera pick a suitable speed (it doesn't need to know the aperture set on the lens) but manual is always an option. Even the image stabilizer works, you just have to set the focal length via a menu.

I very much hope to be able to use M lenses and a micro 4/3 in the same way. The Noctilux may look a bit silly but the little Voigtlander lenses would be superb.
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Old 10-26-2008   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_j View Post
I use an Olympus 4/3 with a range of alternative lenses inluding Pentax Takumar and Leica R. It is really quite practical, the live view which zooms to x7 or x10 gives extreme focussing accuracy, generally aperture priority lets the camera pick a suitable speed (it doesn't need to know the aperture set on the lens) but manual is always an option. Even the image stabilizer works, you just have to set the focal length via a menu.

I very much hope to be able to use M lenses and a micro 4/3 in the same way. The Noctilux may look a bit silly but the little Voigtlander lenses would be superb.
Looks like Lecia M to micro 4/3 will soon be available. See:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ternative.html
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Old 10-26-2008   #8
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Eleskin,

For a backup I would say look at the GD-D II.

My hope is that Leica and Olympus will come out with a great Electronic RF camera with good controls, but it's about 6 months to a year out (my guess). I'm very interested in the Olympus M4/3s system as they have rocked the photographic world with the OM system and the Pen F was very interesting.

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Old 10-26-2008   #9
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I'm baffled at the logic of using M lenses on a 4/3 body. Focal length, dof, everything changes. Could someone explain what they think manual M lenses on a 4/3 body would add to their photography?
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Old 10-26-2008   #10
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Olympus and Panasonic are the folks who drive the 4/3 and M4/3 standard. Leica is a tag along. I believe that it's an open standard (one that anyone can use for free) but I'm not sure. I think Leica can make use of it for free in any case because of their relationship with Pany.

What I'm hoping for is an LED that can be turned off but is bright enough to see in the daylight that will confirm focus on a spot at the center of the frame. Focus should be controlled like the old-fashioned lenses, by a ring around the lens. I would be happy with a set of great bright line finders that clip on to a hot-shoe on the top. Mechanical range finders go out of alignment way too much compared to electronic.

I'd like a set of primes from 7.5 through 200mm. I could forgo a DSLR as the rear LCD would give me enough viewing for the teles and I could get bright lines for the wides.

I'm actually hoping Nikon will think of this as I would love to see a strong metal body and some classic glass, but Olympus should be good enough.

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Last edited by BillBingham2 : 10-26-2008 at 12:52.
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Old 10-27-2008   #11
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From Scho's post above, cross-linked from here to make it easier to see what we're talking about:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fphotofan.jp%2Fcamer a%2Fhtml%2Fmodules%2Fnewbb%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ftopic _id%3D5605%26forum%3D2%26post_id%3D50572%23forumpo st50572

Needless to say that those pictures above are what makes this new platform so exciting. Need quality wide-angle lenses? that's what the C- and Arriflex- mount adapters are for
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Last edited by shadowfox : 10-27-2008 at 11:12.
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Old 10-27-2008   #12
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But still you have the 2x crop factor. Your 15mm looks like a 30mm on film and the 25 looks like a 50mm. So real WW you will only get with the announced 7-14 mm lens.
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Old 10-28-2008   #13
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What can you see in the finder if e.g. the summicron is stopped down to f8?
does the finder compensate that? or will it get dark as hell?
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Old 10-28-2008   #14
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Dark is an understatement! That's why I'm hoping for an ERF (Electronic Range Finder) version rather than an SLR. Great you can use the glass, but I'm spoiled by automatic aperture for bright viewing like on that almost 50 year old Nikon F!

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Old 10-28-2008   #15
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heh I cant wait to get my hands on this with the small compact Olympus m4/3 that will eventually replace my GRD...
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Old 10-29-2008   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC1030 View Post
What can you see in the finder if e.g. the summicron is stopped down to f8?
does the finder compensate that? or will it get dark as hell?
It will get dark, that's when stop-down metering comes to play. You focus with the lens wide open and then close it down to f8 and shoot. Very handy if you pre-calculate the exposure settings, either with Sunny-16 or handheld meter when necessary.
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Old 10-29-2008   #17
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Old 10-30-2008   #18
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I will probably get a G1 if this adapter works. I don't care if it's red, I can deal with the crop factor, lack of metering, whatever. I want to use my M lenses with a digital body and don't (yet) have the bucks for an M8. If focusing works like it does on my Digilux 2 (done through the EVF or on the back screen) that would be great, it's easy.

I could not make much sense out of this article, does it say that the adapter has been built and tested and will now be sold?
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Old 11-01-2008   #19
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heh I cant wait to get my hands on this with the small compact Olympus m4/3 that will eventually replace my GRD...
Yeah, if the Olympus body has image stabilizsation, this will be SWEET. The crop factor's pretty extreme, though...

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If it's red, I ain't buyin' it.
I believe it comes in a variety of colors. I dislike the pointless SLR styling though.
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Old 11-01-2008   #20
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I dislike the pointless SLR styling though.
Amen brutha.
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Old 11-03-2008   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC1030 View Post
What can you see in the finder if e.g. the summicron is stopped down to f8?
does the finder compensate that? or will it get dark as hell?
It won't be dark. Your DOF will increase, but just as you expect an f/8 exposure to be as well exposed as an f/2 exposure, so an LCD (whether on the back or in the VF) will show the scene equally bright, within the limits of the exposure/ISO limits.

It's not the finder that will compensate. The full camera exposure system will compensate, if it's set to automatic exposure.

The camera feels rather cheap and dinky and was not terribly impressive overall, but it should work reasonably.

Since things like the C mount adapter are also mentioned, that would be a reasonable route for off brand wideangles if you're so inclined.

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Old 11-05-2008   #22
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Novoflex has announced an adapter µFT -> M in early 2009 and later a µFT -> R
(source a pers comm. to a LuF Member). And in early 2009 there will be also an Olympus µFT camera...
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Old 11-08-2008   #23
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I bought the G1 as a backup for my M8 and based on the images I've been getting with just the Panasonic kit lens so far I think that the G1 will be perfect for this task. Manual focusing is quick and very accurate with the G1 and should not be a problem with M mount lenses once an adapter becomes available. Here is a link to some of the shots I've taken with the G1 and 14-45 kit lens. All shot in raw mode, developed in SilkyPix, capture sharpened in Lightroom 2.1, and exported as jpegs for the web at 50% of original file size. This little featherweight camera is a joy to use.

http://www.schophoto.com/gallery/pho...g=eng&u=1631,1
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Last edited by scho : 11-09-2008 at 12:22. Reason: edited link
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Old 11-09-2008   #24
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smashing shots! The G1 seems to be rapidly turning into this seasons must have accessory! Loved the resolution of the door/lock/peeling paint shot. One worry however: The interior warehouse shot - is that lens flare, or atmospheric conditions?
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Old 11-09-2008   #25
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smashing shots! The G1 seems to be rapidly turning into this seasons must have accessory! Loved the resolution of the door/lock/peeling paint shot. One worry however: The interior warehouse shot - is that lens flare, or atmospheric conditions?
Thanks bottley. The warehouse (actually a farmers market) haze was caused by very heavy fog. After I get an adapter I'll make some comparison shots using some of my CV and Zeiss lenses on both the G1 and M8.
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Old 11-16-2008   #26
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I borrowed a G1 today with the 4/3 adaptor and am most impressed. The viewfinder is much better than normal 4/3 optical finders. The manual focussing is excellent, automatic zoom and critically sharp focussing.

If there is a 'M' adapter I am going to buy one, though mainly to use with wide angle CV lenses.
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Old 11-25-2008   #27
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FYI

I just received an email from NOVOFLEX that a mFT -> M-mount adaptor will be available in approx. 3 weeks time.
Price approx. Euro 149.-
Does anyone has experience with the NOVOFLEX adaptors?
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Old 11-25-2008   #28
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Stephen says he'll have them in stock soon, not sure if it's the Novoflex or another brand. He also said he'll soon have...

...wait for it...

...a Canon FD adapter!
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Old 11-25-2008   #29
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Quote:
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I bought the G1 as a backup for my M8 and based on the images I've been getting with just the Panasonic kit lens so far I think that the G1 will be perfect for this task. Manual focusing is quick and very accurate with the G1 and should not be a problem with M mount lenses once an adapter becomes available. Here is a link to some of the shots I've taken with the G1 and 14-45 kit lens. All shot in raw mode, developed in SilkyPix, capture sharpened in Lightroom 2.1, and exported as jpegs for the web at 50% of original file size. This little featherweight camera is a joy to use.

http://www.schophoto.com/gallery/pho...g=eng&u=1631,1
I'd love to see the photos. What is the password for your site?
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Old 11-25-2008   #30
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I'd love to see the photos. What is the password for your site?
You don't need a password to view the photos. There are also some more on pbase:
http://www.pbase.com/scho/panasonic_lumix_g1&page=all
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Old 11-25-2008   #31
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Scho! You live in Ithaca! How is it that we haven't met?
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Old 11-25-2008   #32
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Scho! You live in Ithaca! How is it that we haven't met?
I guess because "Tiny town" isn't that tiny anymore!
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Old 11-25-2008   #33
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I cannot do critical manual focusing on an EVF, and I do not believe anyone can. I have read statements by people who say they can, and I believe that THEY believe they can, but I do not believe that they ACTUALLY can.

For the present, an optical viewfinder is required for manual focus if you are doing anything that would not otherwise be covered by DoF side-effects or focus on infinity, hyperfocus, etc.

That may change as OLED takes over from LCD for EVF and it becomes better, faster-updating, and less pixelated. For the moment, it is like peering closely at a TV screen - just a bunch of dots when you try to actually gain focus. And for the record, yes, I have 'tried it lately'. I keep trying it, because I would love to be able to report that the need for a slapping mirror is finally over and done with.

But it just isn't so. I'm sure the G1 will be a lovely camera, and excellent for auto-focus. Manual focus, no. Who would even think such a thing?
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Old 11-25-2008   #34
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I guess because "Tiny town" isn't that tiny anymore!
My friend Franklin Crawford used to write the "Tiny Town" column in the paper...he's quite a photo geek himself these days, and has taken some great Ithaca pics, including a great series from inside the defunct Ithaca Gun factory...



http://flickr.com/photos/frankie1485...7605496283949/
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Old 11-25-2008   #35
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My friend Franklin Crawford used to write the "Tiny Town" column in the paper...he's quite a photo geek himself these days, and has taken some great Ithaca pics, including a great series from inside the defunct Ithaca Gun factory...



http://flickr.com/photos/frankie1485...7605496283949/
Now that is a target rich environment! Franklin's shots look great.
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Old 11-25-2008   #36
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I cannot do critical manual focusing on an EVF, and I do not believe anyone can. I have read statements by people who say they can, and I believe that THEY believe they can, but I do not believe that they ACTUALLY can.

For the present, an optical viewfinder is required for manual focus if you are doing anything that would not otherwise be covered by DoF side-effects or focus on infinity, hyperfocus, etc.

That may change as OLED takes over from LCD for EVF and it becomes better, faster-updating, and less pixelated. For the moment, it is like peering closely at a TV screen - just a bunch of dots when you try to actually gain focus. And for the record, yes, I have 'tried it lately'. I keep trying it, because I would love to be able to report that the need for a slapping mirror is finally over and done with.

But it just isn't so. I'm sure the G1 will be a lovely camera, and excellent for auto-focus. Manual focus, no. Who would even think such a thing?
Manual focusing with the G1 EVIL is outstanding, extremely accurate, bright and clear (not pixellated), and beats the pants off any optical rangefinder or SLR I've used.
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Old 11-25-2008   #37
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Manual focusing with the G1 EVIL is outstanding, extremely accurate, bright and clear (not pixellated), and beats the pants off any optical rangefinder or SLR I've used.
I will look at one as soon as one becomes available at retail. However, I have my doubts, because I have been down this path several times before. People whom I would think could tell the difference have insisted that this or that EVF is ideal for manual focusing, and I go and look and no, it is not. Not even close, which is the part I find so astounding.

If, when the G1 hits my local retail shelves and I can have a look at it, I find I can focus manually, I'll state it and publicly eat crow. At the moment, I still seriously doubt it. I would very much like it to be capable of real manual focus, however.
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Old 11-25-2008   #38
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NOVOFLEX that a mFT -> M-mount adaptor Does anyone has experience with the NOVOFLEX adaptors?
At the Leica "Info Tage Wochenende" (Leica info weekend) (15/16.11.08) at Wetzlar , Novoflex appeared with a G1 the new adaptor and a Summarit 2.5/35.
Some people tried it - and sayed focusing was ok.
Unfortunatelly I couldn´t take part at this Leica-weekend.
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Old 11-25-2008   #39
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The manual focusing is going to be the make or break deal with this camera since most people seem to want to use it as a cheap digital camera to use their Leica lenses on. There is so much interest, it's likely to kill the market for film M's if it works out.
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Old 11-25-2008   #40
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The manual focusing is going to be the make or break deal with this camera since most people seem to want to use it as a cheap digital camera to use their Leica lenses on. There is so much interest, it's likely to kill the market for film M's if it works out.
Fred's nailed it. I have several lenses that I'd love to try out, including a converted-to-M Contax G 45mm lens. The focusing will be key, though. If you can accurately focus, say a C/V 35/1.4, when stopped down, goodbye alleged focus-shift problem. If it works, it could mean lots o' fun for folks with lots of M and LTM glass.

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