$1900 M7 or $1000 Zeiss Ikon

SebastianN · 10-08-2008

I asked a question a while back, where I needed your advice about which of my lenses I ought to sell: The 35mm or 50mm Summilux-ASPH. The overwhelming response was to sell my M8, and I ended up taking your advice. Anyway, I needed the cash to buy a car for work, and in the end I was about to do that, but my boss agreed to give me a 2 year lease on a Toyota, so I've got a car, I got the lenses - but no camera.

I'm gonna wait a while to go down the M8 route again, and will settle for a film body at the moment.

I've been offered (locally) a Leica M7 for $1900 or a Zeiss Ikon for $1000. I really learned to appreciate AE, so it's gonna be one of those. Build quality of them are not that really important, but I was wondering if those prices are out of whack. Both come with all the boxes, papers and stuff, so no difference there. I've done the usual rounds at eBay, and prices seems to be in that range, but M7 differs in price from $1700 to $2500 - and I can't seem to understand why. Is there something I should look out for.

Any advice is deeply appreciated

bennyng · 10-08-2008

I have a tendency to pick up my ZI over the M7. I prefer the handling on the ZI and the larger viewfinder. And in your case, there's an extra $900 in your pocket without any compromise in functions.

However, if you like to shoot with longer focal lengths, do take note that the ZI has an 85mm frameline. The M7 0.72 would have both 75mm and 90mm framelines.

Cheers,

infrequent · 10-09-2008

$700 hexar RF

Austerby · 10-09-2008

There was a change in the viewfinders fitted to M7s - later models have the improved viewfinder as fitted to the MP so that may account for some of the pricing differential. There are a lot more M7s for sale than ZIs and they have been around for longer, so factors such as overall condition come into play too.

I have an M7 and it's a wonderful camera - you won't be disappointed in the slightest if you choose the Leica.

srtiwari · 10-09-2008

Another option is a Bessa R3A/R4A, which is considerably cheaper, allows you to use AE, and can postpone the bigger purchase until you are sure of what you want.

DelDavis · 10-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennyng

However, if you like to shoot with longer focal lengths, do take note that the ZI has an 85mm frameline. The M7 0.72 would have both 75mm and 90mm framelines.

For what it's worth, I've had good success shooting with my 90mm Summicron on my Ikon. That the 85mm framelines provide a slightly wider field of view than 90mm doesn't pose a problem.

retnull · 10-09-2008

Hexar RF...$600 - $800

MichaelW · 10-09-2008

I'd buy the Zeiss, no hesitation. With the $900 you save you can pick up another lens or some useful piece of gear.

tmfabian · 10-09-2008

either way you can't really go wrong. I would suggest however that you check out the dx contacts in the m7 and see if it has been upgraded to the optical reader. If it has been upgraded, i'd buy the m7 in a jiffy, but if it has the older style it's pretty much a toss up and regardless of which you buy you end up with a swank camera.

kevin m · 10-09-2008

Quote:

Another option is a Bessa R3A/R4A, which is considerably cheaper, allows you to use AE...

The only practical downside to the VC bodies is the short-base finder. It's not nearly as accurate as the Leica/Ikon finders for focusing fast/long lenses at any distance.

pau3 · 10-09-2008

Hold both in your hands, and think about yourself taking pictures with them.
If you like the Zeiss Ikon enough, then, fine, you'll have some cash left if you go for it.
But if you buy the Zeiss Ikon now and then realize that what you wanted was
the Leica, oh, man, then you will have made a wrong decision. Compare yourself.
They're different.

Best,
Pau

mervynyan · 10-09-2008

Based on resell value, I'd go with Leica.

35mmdelux · 10-09-2008

since it is temp, get the zeiss

peter_n · 10-09-2008

You already have great glass and if you're going to get another dRF you should probably look for a least cost/reliable interim film solution that you can sell on. I think if you're staying with your 35 and 50mm lenses a used Bessa will do fine. They are good cameras.

jbf · 10-09-2008

Personally I just recently purchased an M7 and have recently owned ZIs before. While I loved the viewfinder in the ZIs, I just wasnt sold on the camera. Perhaps i was paranoid and what not, but I wanted a camera that I knew would be more robust of a camera. I figured the M7 would be that.

I just picked up a BGN M7 from KEH for around 1600 dollars. It has the MP finder upgrade according to leica, so now im just waiting for the camera to arrive here so i can start looking at it/inspect and use it.

visiondr · 10-09-2008

The M7 is the last in a legendary line of Leica M film cameras. There's a reason why tens of thousands of Ms are out there ranging in age from over 50 to brand new. You will never regret buying the M7.

CK Dexter Haven · 10-09-2008

I've owned both. I currently have the Ikon.
The M7 looks a bit better, feels a bit better. But the view through the Ikon is better. And, it's more important what my eye sees than what my hand feels, so i prefer the Ikon. When i first made the switch, the Ikon felt a little "light." But, that's really only in direct comparison to the Leica. With a lens on it, it feels like it ought to feel. I don't miss the 'extra' weight.

As mentioned, the savings gets you another lens, more film, processing, a better scanner, or part of a trip somewhere to take more compelling pictures.

I paid a hair under $1000 for a mint used Ikon, in April 08. I paid about $2000 for a .85 M7 in March 07.

thomasw_ · 10-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35mmdelux

since it is temp, get the zeiss

hmm, Paul it is interesting how you see this. I figure the same as you on one level: this is a temporary film body purchase for which the OP claims he will "settle". Both options involve buying a used film body with AE.

But I say purchase the M7 as it will lose less value than a ZI. On a strictly monetary basis, you will be ahead when you resell. Another aspect is weighing out the ZI vs M7 reliability; in this case, especially since it is a temporary measure, the M7 has less of a chance of going out of alignment than the ZI. That said, both bodies rely on some electronics; but if you are buying a film body as a temporary possession I would go with the body that is reputed to be more robust.

just my 2p cdn.

furcafe · 10-09-2008

A similar caveat applies to the Hexar RF, which has a low-magnification VF that is better for using wides. While one can accurately focus telephotos & the Noctilux on a Hexar, it wouldn't be my 1st choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin m

The only practical downside to the VC bodies is the short-base finder. It's not nearly as accurate as the Leica/Ikon finders for focusing fast/long lenses at any distance.

sepiareverb · 10-09-2008

Absolutely try them both in the hand and pick the one that feels right. I'd choose the M7- much quieter, will likely go longer w/o needing an RF adjustment from what I've heard.

These two use a very different interface for exposure compensation when in AE- if you use exp. comp. a lot the ZM might be a little easier in that regard. Try them both in hand.

tedwin · 10-09-2008

I've got an Ikon (actually Zeiss have it, its away getting its rangefinder aligned) any hoo. The only Leica experience I have to compare it with is the M3 I am using at the moment while it is away. I think I can offer some relevant info though.

The weight difference is significant. I like well built things, but if I can get the same job done with less lugging I will. One of the reasons I like rangefinders anyway is ease of carrying about.

I doubt M7's anymore reliable than ZI's. I haven't heard of any ZI going out of alignment, mine was out from new. As far as I know, if its not out, there is no reason for it to go out. So its is reliable, if you know what I mean.

On the plus side for the M7, actually I can't think of one. If its about quietness - at speeds over 1/60s my ZI is quieter than the M3, I don't know how much difference the M7 would make.

If I was in your position (this won't help) I would buy a black MP. Purely because the one thing I hate about the Ikon is how it looks. I love the looks of the M3. If I could have afforded it that's what i would have bought.

bobkonos · 10-09-2008

$600 M2 or $500 Bessa R4M.

35mmdelux · 10-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasw_

hmm, Paul it is interesting how you see this. I figure the same as you on one level: this is a temporary film body purchase for which the OP claims he will "settle". Both options involve buying a used film body with AE.

But I say purchase the M7 as it will lose less value than a ZI. On a strictly monetary basis, you will be ahead when you resell.
just my 2p cdn.

depreciation is moot because he said it was temporary AND he was considering the ZI AND most importantly there were financial issues. Personally I would only consider a Leica because of its reliability and easy resale. The few hundred extra $ is well worth it. With 35/50 ASPH glass if not Leica, then go with the Hexar ($800).

Sisyphus · 10-09-2008

All I can say, is that I enjoy my M7. I have not used a Zeis Ikon, so I am not sure of the differences. I like the AE and the solidness of the M7. However, I bought I mine a while ago, and paid about what you are going to pay for the IKON. I did not realize that the M7 is worth almost 2K now. If I had to reconsider at today's cost, I might be more inclined to go with the IKON.

peter_n · 10-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkonos

$600 M2 or $500 Bessa R4M.

The OP wants a camera with AE.