Is a Canonet QL17 gIII the right camera for me?

[Merkin]

I am currently in the market to purchase a 35mm rangefinder, and I have mostly been looking at the Leica CL and the Voigtlander r3a/m, but I am not sure that I want to spend that much money for my first rangefinder. As you can probably gather, I am a fan of the 40mm lens, as I prefer something very slightly wide angle from 'normal,' instead of very slightly telephoto.

This being the case, I have been researching the Canonet. The features I like include:

Relatively low cost
Large aperture
flash sync at all shutter speeds
Good quality glass

However, there are a couple of things I don't like about it:
Shutter priority autoexposure instead of aperture priority
No metering in manual mode
The battery issue (yes, i know there are kludges and workarounds and whatnot, but it still strikes me as an aggravation).

A fixed lens is ok with me at this point, as i was only going to (at this juncture at least) get a 40mm lens.

Are there any inexpensive rangefinders I am overlooking that have the pluses of the canonet without as many of the negatives? I do want a camera with as large an aperture as possible, and one with a lens as close to 43mm as possible. Quietness and small size are nice bonuses.

I am willing to spend up to around 200 bucks for a camera in good working order.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and advice.

[gb hill]

The Yashica GSN is aperture priority camera. Has a lovely 45/1:7 lens. It's larger than the Canonet & heavier also. I have both cameras & go for the Canonet much more often because of it's size. I didn't spend nowhere near $200 for either one MOF I have a pristine GSN that was under $20.00. My GIII was my first rf & I payed $75.00 in a camera store. My primary rf now is a Bessa R. If your patient you can find a cheap priced fixed lens rf here in the classifieds. Ebay is risky. Be careful going this route. Then save your dollars for a nice Leica or a Bessa camera like the R3a which has framelines for 40mm.

[dmr]

Originally Posted by Merkin

No metering in manual mode

That's my only gripe with the GIII. (well, kinda)

I would love to have a match-needle mode on this camera.

The battery issue (yes, i know there are kludges and workarounds and whatnot, but it still strikes me as an aggravation).

I have two of them. One I've recalibrated to handle up to ASA/ISO 1600, the other is as-is. I use the "wrong" battery in both, and the meters on both are well within the tolerance you get for C41 negative film, and, actually, I've had good luck with Kodachrome and Astia slide film too.

I am willing to spend up to around 200 bucks for a camera in good working order.

You should be able to get a black one for that price. I paid less than that for a black one about 2 years ago. The chrome ones can go for $35 or so in semi-decent shape.

Biggest problems seem to be the grunged-out light seals and sticking shutters.

[SolaresLarrave]

A black Canonet... talk about cool! Heck, it's the coolest thing!

BTW, to the OP, yes, a Canonet is the right thing for you!

[ruben]

Sorry my friend but I disagree. First, because the Leica CL and the Voigts are different between themselves, and secondly because the Canonets belong to a different class by themselves.

Most of the chances with the Canonets are you will have a very pale yellow patch. This issue is possible to solve trough the inserting of a cut of a Lee filter ND3 (a kind of high quality celluloid neutral density that will give contrast to the pale patch - Search thread "Brightening the Yellow Patch"

So you will have to be ready to disassemble the top casting of the Canonet, which is no problem at all, but you should be ready to do it.

The only cameras which guarantee you beforehand a decent yellow patch are the Yashica Electro series (the abovementioned GSN belongs to this family) and the Olympus 35SP. The problem with the Electros, for you, is that they are semi automatic without manual override.

The problem of the Olympus 35sp is that it may cost half of a new Voigt body.

This is in broad lines. With Konicas Auto S2 your chances to get one with a minimum brightness of the yellow patch are fifty fifty. With the Canonets - no chance. Nevertheless if you are ready for the Lee surgery, then you can enjoy the Canonets and other bigger models from other manufacturers.

I don't think that they will give you a taste of the Leica CL or Voigt, but you will enjoy them for what they are and what you have paid for.

Finally, if you live in a big city, you can tour photo shops for a camera whose yellow patch will satisfy you.

Cheers,
Ruben

[peter_n]

Great little camera. I used mine in manual mode and metered by sunny 16. Very quiet shutter. I think mine cost $30 on eBay then I sent it off to Essex Camera Service in NJ for a CLA. The CLA cost $80 and Essex did a great job. I recommend them if you need service. I posted some pictures from mine on photo.net and had comments about how sharp the lens looked. Apparently there was some sample variation and some lenses were better than others. Maybe something to look out for...

[Al Patterson]

The Canonette is cheap enough that if you don't like it, you can sell it for not much of a loss. And if you really like the rangefinder experience, you can always move to the CL or Bessa at a later date.

[pb908]

I have one, and it is quiet more than yashica lynx and ricoh 500gx. One thing that I don't like is the small(narrow) aperture ring. This make this little camera hard to control, I prefer 500gx more than GIII. In manual mode, metering system of 500gx still ON.

[btgc]

For first inexpensive subf2 FL RF I would recommend either Lynx 5000 or Konica Auto S2 (can't say for Canonet as I don't have it). Ricoh 500GX and it's derivatives are known to have metered manual mode, will cost you max aperture - f2.8 instead of f1.8 and add smaller size which can be bigger gain than larger aperture.

I'm not quite sure about those aged meters, anyway.

[Dave Wilkinson]

Just start saving!!.......you will eventually want a Leica!!

[Ronald_H]

It's exactly the route I followed. Two months later I bought a Leica

But, don't discount the Canonet. It is simply an outstanding camera. Let me say that again, it's an OUTSTANDING camera.

Don't worry unduly about the meter, it works well enough with the 'wrong' battery. I mostly use it manually with my tiny Gossen digiflash.The lens is great, even wide open and offers a very natural perspective.

http://ronald.krezipmedia.org/copper...page=1&sort=na

If you look at the gallery, the B/W pics are taken with the Canonet. HP5+ pushed to 1600 (a stop too far with Diafine).

The rangfinder isn't as great as a Leica M, but usable enough.

And the very best thing? Mine was in great condition, with battery and cost me all of 20 euros.

[dmr]

Originally Posted by SolaresLarrave

A black Canonet... talk about cool! Heck, it's the coolest thing!

Uh-huh, sure is.

[chris00nj]

Originally Posted by Merkin

I am currently in the market to purchase a 35mm rangefinder, and I have mostly been looking at the Leica CL and the Voigtlander r3a/m, but I am not sure that I want to spend that much money for my first rangefinder. As you can probably gather, I am a fan of the 40mm lens, as I prefer something very slightly wide angle from 'normal,' instead of very slightly telephoto.

This being the case, I have been researching the Canonet. The features I like include:

Relatively low cost
Large aperture
flash sync at all shutter speeds
Good quality glass

However, there are a couple of things I don't like about it:
Shutter priority autoexposure instead of aperture priority
No metering in manual mode
The battery issue (yes, i know there are kludges and workarounds and whatnot, but it still strikes me as an aggravation).

A fixed lens is ok with me at this point, as i was only going to (at this juncture at least) get a 40mm lens.

Are there any inexpensive rangefinders I am overlooking that have the pluses of the canonet without as many of the negatives? I do want a camera with as large an aperture as possible, and one with a lens as close to 43mm as possible. Quietness and small size are nice bonuses.

I am willing to spend up to around 200 bucks for a camera in good working order.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and advice.

I prefer shutter priority. I'd rather have the camera pick a wider aperature than a slower shutter speed. Don't all of these era cameras have the same battery problem? The wein cell works well, it's just semi-costly.
The light seals will likely need to be replaced. I got a kit here which saved me some time. .
My viewfinder and rangefinder patch aren't as bright as my leica or bessa, but it is quite useable. I don't think there's a need to do some weird workaround with filters.
You should be able to get one for under $50. Here's one for $10 ending in a day that hasn't been bid on because they didn't include QL17 or GIII in the listing title, even though it is one. It's hard to go wrong there. (I don't know the seller).

[irq506]

I have had a CL in the past and there is one in my store and I dont recommend that you own it. They are nice small and compact etc but they are junk. Junk with Leica on it. honestly they are very feeble and the outer shell is so thin that any kind of non museum quality kid glove treatment will throw one thing or another off.
Ive also owned a Bessa R3a and can say that the Voigtlanders are fine if you know what you are getting into. Again these are somewhat fragile. The rangefinders are lovely, bright, and easy to use the body design comfortable etc, but the shutter on them are appalling. Any kind of cold weather and their design is not designed for any kind of temperature variation and you run the risk of damaging your shutter -and when this occurs well the proverbial faeces hits rotating oscillator.. because there is no one out there to repair your beloved camera, save for one person and he charges more than 65% of the cameras value..... sounds familiar? So no dont buy a Voigtlander.
The GIII however is a rock, I have three. quiet robust, easy to use, fantastic lens, and light weight without being flimsy. There is a reason Canon sold 21,000,000 of these.... Just watch out for ones that have scratched front elements, and the easy-load mechanism actually puts too much pressure on the film... these are two common faults that slip by regularly. Also the light sealing foam inside the door. Mine are batterly updated. One thing you should check when buying one is the battery chamber, check to see if there is -ANY- corrosion of any kind whatsoever because those battery compartments are now gone (Parts No Longer Available aka PNLA), so if there is any corrosion that compartment cant be used to work with the silver batteries and as such the camera cant be updated to work with silver cells.
If you do find one however, and its for less thant $50 get it because its good to have donor parts bodies for that nice one that you will eventually find.

Anyway, take care have fun and youll get the swing of manual no metering in a moment, these are outstanding cameras.
Joe

[hks3sgte]

I recommend the Yashica Lynx 14

Manual
Match Needle
45mm f/1.4 Lens

[nzeeman]

ql17 is a great camera. i always enjoy using mine. i found it lying in dirt and dust in flea market, and it worked without problems from first day. everything is nice on this camera size, f1.7 lens, manual control... you can check my galleries for photos taken with it...

[Rey]

I have several QL 17, GIIIs. I picked them all up in thrift shops, and never paid more than $25 for one. I have seen good examples in camera shops for $75-$100. They are excellent rangefinders. They are solid and have great lenses. I've never had any problem with the yellow patch, but i have removed the top plate to clean the viewfinders. This is a very easy job. Be prepared to replace the seals also. As far as I know, none of the compact, fixed lens rangefinders can meter in manual mode.

[moretto]

Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson

Just start saving!!.......you will eventually want a Leica!!

Honestly, this might be the best advice you got. See the list of my cameras? They are all very good and usable. I'm not a snob, spending a fortune on cameras, but none of them is a match for Leica feeling.
But hey, I don't have a Canonet!! maybe...

[Jamie Pillers]

But beware here, if you wear glasses. The Bessa R3 viewfinder 40mm framelines are really hard to see if you wear glasses. I sold the camera for that reason.

[btgc]

Originally Posted by Rey

As far as I know, none of the compact, fixed lens rangefinders can meter in manual mode.

Ricoh 500G[GX] is exception. Ricoh is special camera company, making them for humans.

[ruben]

Originally Posted by irq506

I have had a CL in the past and there is one in my store and I dont recommend that you own it. They are nice small and compact etc but they are junk. Junk with Leica on it.

honestly they are very feeble and the outer shell is so thin that any kind of non museum quality kid glove treatment will throw one thing or another off.
Ive also owned a Bessa R3a and can say that the Voigtlanders are fine if you know what you are getting into.

Again these are somewhat fragile. The rangefinders are lovely, bright, and easy to use the body design comfortable etc, but the shutter on them are appalling. .............So no dont buy a Voigtlander.

The GIII however is a rock, I have three. quiet robust, easy to use, fantastic lens, and light weight without being flimsy. ..............

Joe

Wow ! This is a statement.

Cheers,
Ruben

(Spacing and omitions by me)

[ruben]

Originally Posted by hks3sgte

I recommend the Yashica Lynx 14

Manual
Match Needle
45mm f/1.4 Lens

BTW, this Lynx 14 is better, much better in my opinion to the Lynx 14e IC, which is not "match needle" but "traffic lights" popular stupid like in the subsequent Electro series.

The "traffic lights" at the viewfinder tell you when are you over or under, and show you the direction of moving the rings.

The match needle way, in which the needle is to match a white circle within a broad green patch, allows you like in the OM1 and OM3 and OM4 SLRs to compensate on the spot the exposure, once learning at what distance from the white circle should the needle be in order that the camera will be showing you 1 stop over, or 1 stop under.

Thus, another use of this trick is that it allows you in the fastest way to use ISO 1600 and still enjoy the light metering of the camera, which is formally designed for a max of ISO 800.

However, Merkin, a word of caution: this is a bigger and heavier beast than a Canonet.

Cheers,
Ruben

[KoNickon]

The same reason I sold my R3A. The Canonet is a fine camera, indeed. And its less prestigious sibling, the Canonet 28, produces excellent pictures also.

[-doomed-]

Having just bought the canonet , i have to say im a fan of it .
Its small and easy to use , has a sharp lense and is quiet.
I also enjoy that people think its just some crappy point and shoot camera.

Of course this is my first rangefinder but it def has me hooked on them.

[irq506]

Indeed.. a statement it is. I dont mean to come across as arrogant but I work in a store and repair workshop. Before I worked here I used the expensive Canon digital cameras and the expensive L glass and to my mind there were no substitutes. However a few years working with every camera under the sun and one very quickly realizes what makes good images consistently and what does not. I know that for both me and for editors, we want a good image in preference to any image even if it takes a few moments longer to achieve it -and as most of you well know that once you master your machinery speed of use becomes an involuntary reaction.