Ebay camera buying translations?

[FallisPhoto]

I've been buying vintage cameras (mostly rangefinders and folders) on ebay for years now, and I thought I'd give some of the newer ebayers the benefeit of my experience. The number one problem you will run into is that what is said in the item descriptions on ebay is rarely what is actually meant. I offer the following translations:

Mint: This does not mean "like new," as it would anywhere else. It means the camera is a solid mass of rust and corrosion, protected by a thin skin of metal that still manages to look like new.

Minty: This is not the same thing as mint. If you take the aforementioned "mint" camera, scratch your name, address, social security number, brief personal history, and children's favorite bedtime stories into the base plate with a rusty nail, rip off the leatherette from the back and replace it with Christmas wrapping paper, then it can be said to be "minty."

Good condition: Don't take this literally. The camera's appearance and working condition are two different things. One of them is good, but the other almost certainly isn't. The bellows probably has more holes than a piece of lace would, someone has worked on the shutter and found he had five leftover parts upon reassembly (which he discarded), and the rear lens element is missing. Looks good though. There is a tiny spot, somewhere amid all the lens fungus, that you can still see through, if you hold it at just the right angle.

Good condition for it's age: This means the camera was either accidentally run over, several times, by Mack trucks, or was used for batting practice. The lens fungus has been there long enough that it has discovered fire, invented the wheel, and is chipping primitive tools out of the glass of the lens.

Working condition: It works fine -- as a paperweight, a door stop, a fishing sinker -- just don't expect to take photos with it. The lens fungus is driving around in small automobiles.

As is: Someone cleaned the shutter by pulling a 20-foot length of barbwire through it and dipping it in acid. The post-apocalyptic lens fungus has begun to mutate. Back away slowly and try not to show any signs of fear. If there is a stout stick nearby, you might want to pick it up.

Untested: This means "I stuck a new battery in it and nothing happened. It wouldn't even turn on."

"I don't know anything about cameras, but...": This means "I know pretty much everything about cameras. This one is broken beyond repair, but I don't want to say so."

No reserve!: This actually means "Please don't check my shipping costs; they have been known to cause seizures, rashes and bleeding gums."

"Rare!": Yeah, you rarely see a common-as-dirt camera like this with its leatherette spray painted that color.

"Worked last time I used it.": Just think about this for a second. Last time he used it, it worked. Then it stopped working, so he couldn't use it anymore. That's why he's selling it.

[petronius]

There are sentences like: "Experts will know what gem this camera is!" and "For more information see the attached photo." The photo is normally a blurry cellphone picture on which you can see anything but the item.

To be serious, I had more positive than negative experiences with (german) ebay sellers.

[ruby.monkey]

You know what they say - "If Life gives you lemons, sell 'em on eBay".

[ALN]

My favorite description was....."almost mint PLUS".... and as for the photos, sometimes they have the clarity of your typical Bigfoot snapshot.

Regards,
Al

[rbsinto]

When I see "mint" or my all-time favorite "minty" used to describe a piece of photogrear, I always assume it refers to flavour, and nothing more.

[chris00nj]

Very funny!

I also love how when a seller writes "As-Is" on the description that means that you are not allowed to be annoyed that the condition of the camera or lens is much worse than otherwise described, and somehow you should be prevented from leaving a bad review. Writing "as-is" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

"Rare" is so common on eBay. My favorite is "Rare Leica Luftwaffe copy" and there are five of them for sale from the same vendor.
And just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is valuable.

I also hate it when they stick the Leica copies in the Leica folder

Lastly, why do people say the word "minty"? It annoys me just to see it. Can't people just write "mint" without adding a "y" in order to sound like a 2-year old.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by chris00nj

...

Lastly, why do people say the word "minty"? It annoys me just to see it. Can't people just write "mint" without adding a "y" in order to sound like a 2-year old.

A slight difference in connotation. Minty is a dimunutive. Makes it a little less than mint. It gives the seller more wiggle room when you complain just because the camera back on the Leica doesn't latch, and has a Holga logo on it.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I wonder why the seller of a Voightlander lens I just bought didn't use that word. It was listed as being purchased from an estate, and due to the way it was stored, he was assuming there was mildew. From the way it smelled, I am assuming the former owner died in a flood because Noah wouldn't let him on the ark.

Well, honestly I suspected something and was surprised I got it for less than about $10.00 (including shipping). Anybody looking for a "minty" 135 f/4?

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by DougFord

…and the number one phrase that absolves the seller from any personal responsibility is….."I’m selling it for a friend"

... whose husband just passed away.

[Al Patterson]

Originally Posted by rbsinto

When I see "mint" or my all-time favorite "minty" used to describe a piece of photogrear, I always assume it refers to flavour, and nothing more.

The camera tastes great, your wallet will be less filling if you buy it.

I have had the image come to mind of some strange dude licking his cameras to check whether they are minty or just mint...

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by ALN

My favorite description was....."almost mint PLUS".... and as for the photos, sometimes they have the clarity of your typical Bigfoot snapshot.

Regards,
Al

One of my favorite descriptions was: "Camera fully functional. Shutter frozen."

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by rbsinto

When I see "mint" or my all-time favorite "minty" used to describe a piece of photogrear, I always assume it refers to flavour, and nothing more.

I always assume he's lying, and move on to something else. There is no such thing as a 50-year-old camera that is "mint." If it hasn't been used and maintained in 50 years, it won't work. Non-functional cameras are not mint. If it has been used and maintained, it isn't mint.

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by petronius

There are sentences like: "Experts will know what gem this camera is!" and "For more information see the attached photo." The photo is normally a blurry cellphone picture on which you can see anything but the item.

To be serious, I had more positive than negative experiences with (german) ebay sellers.

So have I, but every now and then I run into one where -- well, either the seller is a really amazingly incompetent con man, or he is so utterly clueless that he ought to be kept on a leash.

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by oftheherd

... whose husband just passed away.

...while serving in Iraq.

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by chris00nj

Lastly, why do people say the word "minty"? It annoys me just to see it. Can't people just write "mint" without adding a "y" in order to sound like a 2-year old.

Awwwww, didn't hims wike my widdle cammy?

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by photomoof

Well sure there are, I have bought any number of unopened 50 year old Cameras that work, however all of them have been Japanese. Here is a 1956 Miranda T bought brand new from B&H Photo, they found it in a buy from a distributor. I was the first to actually break the cellophane around the camera body itself (notice the strap still wrapped).

Mint is a term referring originally to coins, but it means: "brand new, pristine, perfect, immaculate, unblemished, undamaged, unmarked, unused, first-class, excellent."

This Miranda did function perfectly, probably because at that time the Japanese used whale oil based lubricants, which hold up rather well to aging.

I have also opened unused Nikon S cameras, which also functioned because of the same lubricant (and ball bearing shutters) from 1950.

Certainly a camera can be "Mint" and still need fresh lubrication, if it is going to be used heavily.

Buyers on eBay should be careful to notice if a camera is being sold as a user or a collectible, since they are entirely different in description. If for instance you want a Leica M4 with an intact seal in the lens mount, and you are buying it to use, it would be foolish to spend the extra money, since the seal will have to be destroyed.

I've never bought a vintage camera that didn't need a lot of work to get it running, and this includes several that were advertised as "mint." Over 50 years, things deteriorate. If springs are not exercised regularly, for example, they relax. If the lube dries up, the lubed parts have to be seperated, and this often leads to damage (usually minor metal staining that has to be polished out). Clear and white plastics turn yellow and have to be polished (same with white paint). Decals dry up, crack and fall off. All 50-year-old light seals have to be replaced, because they can do damage just sitting there. The glue under the covering becomes granular, in time, and can release. Old folders, held together with rivets, almost always have "Zeiss bumps," at least to some extent. And so on.

[alliv]

A few days ago I stumbled upon the following description: "the lens was never abused optically"... whatever that can be..

[ederek]

Thanks, this brought a smile.

....yet they are real fears.

Bought a Kiev 4 a couple months ago and was pleasantly surprised by the condition considering the low price. This emboldened me...

Gambled again... ...and a nice M4 with a couple lenses arrived this week!

It was 'as described', though there was an extra shutter release cable, the lenses look perfect and are very smooth. Both had filters on them, with the 50mm Sumicron having an orig matching Leica filter that was clearly never off the lens. Couldn't be happier with the camera.

FallisPhoto - what isn't on the list is the opposing bidder with 500 'wins' that comes in 2 minutes before the auction is over and bids you up $250!!! My adrenaline hadn't pumped as much in the past 2 months as at the end of those 2 minutes!! Went over my 'target' max bid, but rationalized it by figuring it must be a collector or reseller that saw a good value...

Feeling lucky now....

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by alliv

A few days ago I stumbled upon the following description: "the lens was never abused optically"... whatever that can be..

No one looked at it very hard?

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by photomoof

You need to buy Nikons, I have never bought one that would not work.

I have two: FM2 and FM3. I had to fix the FM3, because the shutter was jamming. Someone had already serviced the FM2.

[chris00nj]

Originally Posted by DougFord

…and the number one phrase that absolves the seller from any personal responsibility is….."I’m selling it for a friend"

They usually combine "I'm selling it for a friend" with "I don't know much about cameras." If I didn't know a lot about cameras and had a friend knew a ton about cameras, I might ask him to sell it for me. However, if he didn't know sh*t either, why on Earth would I ask him to sell it.

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by ederek

FallisPhoto - what isn't on the list is the opposing bidder with 500 'wins' that comes in 2 minutes before the auction is over and bids you up $250!!! My adrenaline hadn't pumped as much in the past 2 months as at the end of those 2 minutes!! Went over my 'target' max bid, but rationalized it by figuring it must be a collector or reseller that saw a good value...

Feeling lucky now....

Yeah, I get that one a lot. What I do is make ridiculously low bids on many good or interesting cameras and hope one slips through the cracks. Occasionally, one does. One time about a month went by when one guy bid on everything I did, but he did it about 2 seconds before the end of the auctions. I'm still not sure how he did that.

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by chris00nj

They usually combine "I'm selling it for a friend" with "I don't know much about cameras." If I didn't know a lot about cameras and had a friend knew a ton about cameras, I might ask him to sell it for me. However, if he didn't know sh*t either, why on Earth would I ask him to sell it.

1. Because BOTH guys are idiots!!!
or...
2. Because he's lying. He knows a lot about cameras and he's not selling it for a friend. He knows it is broken, doesn't want to say it is, and he wants his non-existent friend to take the blame.

[Muggins]

"Optically mint" is a good one... There's one particular seller - doesn't seem to have anything at the moment, and I can't remember his name - who describes everything as "optically mint" - almost all of which is dirty at best, often really battered.

Yet people must buy from him, and I've seen much worse feedback levels - his isn't great, but there are worse out there. I can only assume that "optically mint" is a phrase in his generic description, as most things are then more accurately described.

The only time I've thought of buying from him was when he had a Werra that had been dropped, heavily. Bizarrely, there was a bidding war - I can only assume that several of us all wanted it for the shutter alone.

Adrian

[rbsinto]

Then of course there are those sellers who give the buying public absolutely no credit at all for having even half a brain, such as the Photoarsenal people who have been trying for the last couple of years to sell a black SP that looks in the photos like it was used to stun cattle in a slaughter house just before it was left out in a severe desert sandstorm, that is described as having "slight signs of wear". These guys crack me up.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by photomoof

I have to admit I never consider the junk level Nikons, I was referring to the professional level classic mechanical bodies. S, S2, SP, S3, F, F2

If you like buying junk Nikons you can't beat the Nikkorrex cameras, they came broken from the factory.

Sadly almost all companies seem to produce some consumer junk, meant to be sold at low prices by mass marketers.

I always admired Leica and Apple for not doing it.

I shall always strive to achieve your level sir. Meanwhile I am stuck with junk cameras like older Fujica, Minolta, Contax, Pentax, Yashica, Mamiya and the like. But I'm trying, I really am.