Dinky 4.5x6 folders.

fidget · 08-31-2008

Not RF I know, seeking a break from my efforts to get a good 6x9 into shape, I saw this and had to have one.

An English made Ensign Selfix 1620. This one has the four element Ross Xpress lens for 4 1/2 x 6 on 120 film.
I've just finished cleaning up the shutter and lenses. It's now loaded and has been toasting in daylight on the windowsill on frame no1 as a check for light ingress. I will shoot off the remainder when I next get out.

It's very dinky, but quite heavy. Very nicely made, all very accessible and serviceable.

I had one a couple of years ago, but was disappointed by poor results, due to sloppy lens board supports.

Looking forward to developing the test film.

One thing though, isn't it a pain trying to get the threaded ring back onto the lens and then tightened? Any tips on going about this?

Dave

dazedgonebye · 08-31-2008

Good looking little camera.

The zenobia has always interested me. Very, very small, with a tessar style lens.

fidget · 09-05-2008

The test film came out very well. I tried to incorporate as many meaningful test frames as I could think of of the day. all came out well.
I have been impressed by this small folder and began to look for other bargains (GAS). Picked up a simple 3 element version and will service the shutter & lens, but not before I get out and run a few rolls through this.
Hope to post something soon.

What ZI models come in 4.5x6?

Wayno · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidget

What ZI models come in 4.5x6?

I've got a Nettar 515.

I wrote a bit about it here. There are also Ikonta & Super Ikonta models in 645. Plenty of quality in a small package!

Muggins · 09-05-2008

Yes, a friend of mine has a "semi" Super Ikonta. Wish I had a pic of it next to my Moskva - just shows you how closely the Ikonta was copied.

I also have a Welta Perle - see post #20: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ht=welta+Perle

It seems to be cursed - the first roll of film through it was pants, the second was old and the spool was damaged in the post when I sent it to Ilford to test their service... So between numbers all over the film and light leaks, I'm still not sure how good it might be!

Adrian

ETA: I've also seen a Balda so similar to the Welta that I wondered if they were built at the same factory. I suspect that most German manufacturers probably had a "semi" in the range somewhere.

Ensign also built the Autorange 16-20 which had a coupled rangefinder which is quite sought after, especially with the Ross Xpres lens, but for some reason I don't seem to be able to find a decent picture of one.

oftheherd · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggins

Yes, a friend of mine has a "semi" Super Ikonta. Wish I had a pic of it next to my Moskva - just shows you how closely the Ikonta was copied.

I also have a Welta Perle - see post #20: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ht=welta+Perle

It seems to be cursed - the first roll of film through it was pants, the second was old and the spool was damaged in the post when I sent it to Ilford to test their service... So between numbers all over the film and light leaks, I'm still not sure how good it might be!

Adrian

Wow. How you get that Perle to working. I have heard a lot of good about them. It would be a shame to have one and it not deliver what they are capable of.

oftheherd · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidget

Not RF I know, seeking a break from my efforts to get a good 6x9 into shape, I saw this and had to have one.

...

Don't worry, you're in the right place. There seems to have been a lot of interest in non-RF folders lately. Including me. They just seem so nice. Small, often light, good photo takers, what's not to like? I will be taking at least two, probably three on my upcoming vacation.

The one you have there looks really nice. I am not a particular fan of 645, but that one really looks compact and easy to take along. Look forward to seeing some photos from it.

ZeissFan · 09-05-2008

Kodak also had a 6x4.5 out of its German operation -- the Duo 620. There were three models, were somewhat large cameras and took 620 film.

Zeiss Ikon had both the Nettar, Ikonta and Super Ikonta in 6x4.5 ... the so-called A models. There are numerous model numbers, but they generally were 52x and 53x, I think.

I can't recall ever seeing any 6x4.5 cameras from Agfa. Voigtlander had the Perkeos, right? I'm not up on Voigtlander folding cameras.

Muggins · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by oftheherd

Wow. How you get that Perle to working. I have heard a lot of good about them. It would be a shame to have one and it not deliver what they are capable of.

It actually took very little - it looked as though it had been kept n a henhouse but under the dirt mechanically it all worked. I've even been brave/dumb enough to try the self-timer. Perfect it isn't - I had the front off the shutter and given it a bit of Ronsonol, which livened the speeds up nicely. What I really want is a scrap shutter of similar vintage as I think I may have a cracked blade (at least one has a line across it that looks supiciously like a crack) and while it works I'm not going to mess with t until I have the parts...

And it would be nice to have some sun, to take pics in, and not have a roll screwed up for me - obviously a padded envelope just ain't good enough. Oh, and using fresh film...

Adrian

chippy · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggins

And it would be nice to have some sun, to take pics in, and not have a roll screwed up for me - obviously a padded envelope just ain't good enough. Oh, and using fresh film...

Adrian

i hope the perle comes good for Adrian...it should its a perle! haha

whats this about sunshine! i forget but arnt you in the UK. its winter down here and freezing but still some sunshine...it summer over there you should have tan LOL

Windscale · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippy

....

whats this about sunshine! i forget but arnt you in the UK. its winter down here and freezing but still some sunshine...it summer over there you should have tan LOL

Not quite so this year!

Muggins · 09-05-2008

Yep, we've just had the wettest August ever, and haven't had more than about four days sun any time this year.

By the way chippy, that was a bloody awful pun!

Adrian

oftheherd · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggins

Yep, we've just had the wettest August ever, and haven't had more than about four days sun any time this year.

By the way chippy, that was a bloody awful pun!

Adrian

I thought it was pretty punny.

chippy · 09-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggins

Yep, we've just had the wettest August ever, and haven't had more than about four days sun any time this year.

By the way chippy, that was a bloody awful pun!

Adrian

hehe well ya know ow it is- a spur ov da moment ding- day cant all be winners LOL.....but wot ya goin to do , 'jump through the speakers and rip my bloody arms off'

that quote is from an aussie song in the 70s (i think) i am not sure if that saying and song made it to england but it was a classic down here by Aunty Jack ...where at the end he says just that (that he will jump through the speakers...i havnt heard it for some time but it used to repeated for years after ...just for the hell of it

fidget · 09-21-2008

A few pics from the first outing with the Ensign 1620.

Great barn doorway but too many nettles to get closer. Ilford HP5+

Shot in the gloom of Goredale Scar.
We were not feeling up to the climb over the big rock to the top of the gorge.
Used a monopod to give a little better platform steadiness.

Crop of 600dpi scan at 1:1. some good detail.

It became evident that there was a focus issue somewhere, so a test shoot was set up following a few drinks.....or did the focus look wrong after the shot was set up.....dunno now.

The centre can was set to be in focus, 5ft at f3.5, so just about the worst case.
EDIT: the cans were arranged at three inch intervals.

At 10ft f3.5 all were in good enough focus so I will just use the cam but avoid close/wide focus shots. (in any case, this would be a poor choice for close working.....)

Solinar · 09-21-2008

It looks like you have working 645 folder. So, what's up at 5 ft, six inches of back focus?

charjohncarter · 09-21-2008

I like that camera. Were they only sold in England?

oftheherd · 09-21-2008

Really nice photos! Those old folders can really deliver.

fidget · 09-22-2008

Thanks for the comments

The later Houghton Ensign Selfix range included the models 1620 (16 on 120), 1220 (12 0n 120) and the 820 (you can guess on 120). These featured the bright frame line Albada viewer. bright, big and clear.
820 prices seem to be rising steadily on thE bay. I don't know if they were marketed in the States.
Older models without the Albada finder or the 4 element lens are very nice cameras too. I have snagged a pair for a little more than cost of their postage and hope to play with them soon, although one appears to have lens/film parallel issues.

Windscale · 09-22-2008

I can tell you with confidence that the Ross Xpress lenses in Epsilon shutter are very good lenses, easily comparable to Zeiss lenses. You will also find that Red Colour comes out very nicely, sparkling and bright with most slide films. But the 820 with rangefinder is a bit on the heavy side.

TheHub · 09-22-2008

Folders are not only compact and svelte, but they're a cheap way to get into medium format.

I use a Minolta Semi-P (6x4.5) and an Agfa Billy-Record (6x9) myself.

I had a Nettar I got a while back, but the lens was hazier than downtown L.A. and the shutter speeds were all off so I ended up getting my money back

Muggins · 09-23-2008

There's currently an Ensign Autorange 16-20 on you-know-where:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Superb-Ross-En...d=p3286.c0.m14

It looks in very good nick, perhaps my one concern is that the seller has only opened it, he's not moved the RF arm up to its operating position.

Haven't a clue whether they were sold outside the UK - I'd guess that the European market was dominated by German cameras and the US by Japanese, so British cameras would have found it hard to get a look-in.

Adrian

fidget · 09-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggins

There's currently an Ensign Autorange 16-20 on you-know-where:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Superb-Ross-En...d=p3286.c0.m14

It looks in very good nick, perhaps my one concern is that the seller has only opened it, he's not moved the RF arm up to its operating position.

Haven't a clue whether they were sold outside the UK - I'd guess that the European market was dominated by German cameras and the US by Japanese, so British cameras would have found it hard to get a look-in.

Adrian

That went for much more than I would have guessed it would.
The inclusion of an RF feature and a fair lens brings extra money doesn't it?

Dave

Muggins · 09-23-2008

Doesn't it just... Bang go my dreams (but then I'm a tightwad).

Adrian

chippy · 09-23-2008

Quote:

Haven't a clue whether they were sold outside the UK - I'd guess that the European market was dominated by German cameras and the US by Japanese, so British cameras would have found it hard to get a look-in.

sounds about right although certain photographic outlets in Australia (and probably other commonwealth countries) traditionaly imported British cameras, more particularly from the Houghton company and its subsequent name changes through the years, in preferance to German or American cameras, and built their businesses around Houghton cameras from the dawn of photography. Fantasic history to the company and between the two wars houghton was simply the biggest and best photographic company in England and possibly the commonwealth

i beleive by the mid to late50's though its recognised that (Houghton) Ross Ensign poured too much money into the development and production of the Autorange camera's (good for us and those that bought them) and not into 35mm which was taking over in the amature market beleiving as many of us here do that 120 film is far superior to 35mm (because it is!) . and many pro's were using different formats and cameras to the folders--so by the early 60's sadly Ross Ensign is gone.

The 1620 is a superb looking camera and if i had the last Autorange 820 i would want the 1620 simply to keep it company. the last 820 is the creme de la creme though with its smooth lines and large viewfinder, which it has in common with the 1620, but the 820 has unit focusing as well, as opposed to front cell in the 1620.

i can see the appeal of the 6x4.5 format; small pocketable ect but personaly i have never really been fond of the format-probably stemming from using a hasselblad for a long time; i had 6x4.5 backs so that i could be frugal with film but i just found it anoying to have to turn the camera around and prefered for ease of use to simply crop a 6x6 if i had to and not worry about the small expenace. IMHO the neg size is only a slight step up from 35mm for the effort so i prefer 6x6 or 6x9 but thats just me .

still its a lovely looking camera and for those that like 6x4.5 i would say its choice camera--enjoy...i enjoyed the pictures-fantasic! the back focus is wierd tho did you measure distance to cans ,i presume you did