Rodinal 1:100
Old 07-21-2008   #1
AshenLight
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Question Rodinal 1:100

I recently read a short article at http://www.toycamera.com/ claiming that the author develops all film types at any temperature for 10 minutes in 1:100 Rodinal and states that he obtains good results using this procedure. Does this make sense to anyone else or am I missing something? It certainly runs counter to my experience with developers including Rodinal.

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Old 07-21-2008   #2
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I think it makes some sense because at that dilution, there is very little developer per roll and it will certainly exhaust in under 10 minutes. It hinges on this: That very small amount of developer can only develop so much silver. I can see that he may well end up with some uniformity in negative density, regardless (mostly) of film type.

We normally develop with a distinct excess of developer and therefore with the real danger of overdevelopment if we don't watch the time carefully. Develop less aggressively with just enough developer so that it will exhaust, and the difference between 5 minutes and 10 minutes will be negligible.

Kodak, Agfa, or Ilford would never recommend this, especially for commercial work, but hey...



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Old 07-21-2008   #3
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Thanks David. I think I'll give this a try on some Plus-X and/or FP-4 and see how it works out. I'll post the results when available.

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Old 07-21-2008   #4
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If you wish to pursue this -- just for the heck of it, I imagine -- you might run a few rolls at the same weak dilution just to determine when the point of exhaustion is reached. Like, one roll developed for 5 minutes, one for 6, one for 7, etc. Most modern films have pretty thin and precise emulsion coatings, so they should exhaust developer in roughly the same times.

I once developed a roll in 1+100 overnight, and the negs were fine, but truth be told, development probably maxed out within 10 minutes or so, but I've nothing to back that up.

It's walking the tightrope a bit, chancing underdevelopment due to premature exhaustion, but I for one prefer thinner negatives to thicker when it comes to printing the damn things.

Back in the olden days, when Rodinal was a kid, before spot-meters and such, and when emulsions were thicker and more forgiving, photographers tended toward overexposure and underdevelopment, if anything, and mostly ended up with survivable and printable negatives.
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Old 07-21-2008   #5
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10 minutes is usually not enough even for 1+50 dillution. So I'd agree the overexposure is needed to balance the underdevelopment. I checked the gallery for results and to me the pictures have no detail in shadows and contrast is boosted massively to fit both ends of histogram spectrum (scanner auto-adjust). While it suits the holga-style shots, it's not an all-round solution.

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Old 07-21-2008   #6
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1+100 for 10 minutes seems OK for EFKE25 and low speed films.

IMHO for other films 20-30 minutes will be more on the mark and even more if you decide not to agitate /semi-stand
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Old 07-21-2008   #7
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I use 1/100 for stand developing single rolls of 120 or 135 BW having an ISO <200 . Very simple. Inversions for 10-12secs for the first 4-5 minutes, go watch a tv show for 30. Come back and one 10 - 12 sec inversion and then go watch another 30 min of TV (or whatever) Come back, drain rinse, etc

Works fine for me.

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I'm going to try
Old 07-23-2008   #8
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Cool I'm going to try

Quote:
Originally Posted by jan normandale View Post
I use 1/100 for stand developing single rolls of 120 or 135 BW having an ISO <200 . Very simple. Inversions for 10-12secs for the first 4-5 minutes, go watch a tv show for 30. Come back and one 10 - 12 sec inversion and then go watch another 30 min of TV (or whatever) Come back, drain rinse, etc

Works fine for me.

Ash: The total volume of solution is also somewhat important. AGFA says 10ml per roll minimum. Many folks on the internet say that they use anywhere from 3ml to 6ml without difficulty. I'm oldfahioned and would start with the 10ml according to AGFA.

Jan: This is good news. Your sample is as good as anyone could hope for. I have a ton of Efke 25, APX 25, Tmax 100 & Delta 100 in all 3 formats. I just got a bottle of Rodinal as well.

Let me see if I have this correct:
10-12 sec. inversions each minute for the first 4-5 minutes.
Stand for 30 minutes.
10-12 sec. inversions.
Stand 30 minutes.
Drain
Stop
Fix
Wash

Does temperature seem to be critical at all? How much dilute solution do you use per roll? Or does it seem to matter?

This could be better than "one developer at any temperature fits all film" Diafine.
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Old 07-23-2008   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venchka View Post
Ash: The total volume of solution is also somewhat important. AGFA says 10ml per roll minimum. Many folks on the internet say that they use anywhere from 3ml to 6ml without difficulty. I'm oldfahioned and would start with the 10ml according to AGFA.

Jan: This is good news. Your sample is as good as anyone could hope for. I have a ton of Efke 25, Tmax 100 & Delta 100 in all 3 formats. I just got a bottle of Rodinal as well.

Let me see if I have this correct:
10-12 sec. inversions each minute for the first 4-5 minutes.
Stand for 30 minutes.
10-12 sec. inversions.
Stand 30 minutes.
Drain
Stop
Fix
Wash

Does temperature seem to be critical at all? How much dilute solution do you use per roll? Or does it seem to matter?

This could be better than "one developer at any temperature fits all film" Diafine.
Wayne, email me and I'll send you the 'sheet' as a word doc attachment. Cheers Jan
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Old 07-23-2008   #10
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Jan,

Done!
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Old 07-23-2008   #11
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At 1+100 development continues significantly for about an hour at 68f-ish.
At 1+200 development continues significantly for perhaps 90 minutes.

Note that it's not 1:100 it's 1-plus-100, which is actually entirely inconsequential.

Pros do use this kind of dilution sometimes and Agfa has suggested it occasionally.

These dilutions are used with "stand processing," which means you do zero agitation after the first minute or two (sometimes we weaken and invert once or twice, gently, half way through). DO NOT AGITATE, just gently invert a few times if you feel you must.

The goal is to get extremely long tonal scale and to avoid disturbing the interesting "edge effect" , which is lost with any sort of conventional agitation.

I use these dilutions with Fuji Neopan 400, rated at 1000. I have not yet figured out Acros, nearly as well, with anything.

When I've run 4 rolls at once in a Nikor tank, the bottom rolls suffered.
However, 2 rolls in 500cc are fine.

I've done this very successfully at roughly 1+200 in a 250cc Nikor tank: I used 1.5 cc of Rodinal. A small graduate or your neighbor's son's hypodermic needle is necessary.

Temp isn't critical if you stay within a few degrees of 20c/68f

It's criminal to compare this with Diafine: Rodinal users worship sharpness.
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No worries
Old 07-23-2008   #12
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Cool No worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTK View Post
...
It's criminal to compare this with Diafine: Rodinal users worship sharpness.
I know that. I knew that way back in the Land Before Time. Worms. Germany. Circa Ought 69.

I was merely comparing the "do all film at any temperature" procedure with the similar way Diafine works. However, I have seen some very sharp negatives come out of Diafine. But that's a discussion for another day.
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Old 07-23-2008   #13
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Thanks for this thread. I've just started experimenting with Rodinal and Neopan 400 and Pan F, and thus far, I really like it. See the sample below. I'll have to try this stand developing some time. Jan, could you email me your sheet, too?

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Old 07-23-2008   #14
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Is the sample Neopan 400 or Pan F?
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Old 07-23-2008   #15
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That's Pan F (50 asa). I was interested to see how that very fine grain film did in rodinal, and I was pleased. I believe this was a time-temp controlled developing at 1:50.
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Old 07-23-2008   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan normandale View Post
I use 1/100 for stand developing single rolls of 120 or 135 BW having an ISO <200 . Very simple. Inversions for 10-12secs for the first 4-5 minutes, go watch a tv show for 30. Come back and one 10 - 12 sec inversion and then go watch another 30 min of TV (or whatever) Come back, drain rinse, etc

Works fine for me.

Very nice picture. Your picture once again has a kind of feel that seems from time to time pop up with this developer. It is very dark tone, detail and somehow just striking to me. May I ask whether there is any secret? Is it underexposed? On top of the above development time, any other use of chemicals? Also, is any setting of the scanner and photoshop involved? Sorry to ask so many questions. My Rodinal is now in the air and I am very eager to try it. Any hint for a starting point?
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Old 07-23-2008   #17
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I'm with Jan, although I don't like this method ALL the time. I generally use 1+50 with a specific time, temp, agitation. But here is one hour Rodinal 1+100, 30 seconds to start and then 2-3 inversion at 30 minutes and one hour:


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Old 07-23-2008   #18
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Dennis, that's Acros 100 ISO / 120 shot at 100. The light was very stark, hence the contrast.
Carter that's basically what I'm doing so that's a great link for everyone here
Doug, the email is being forwarded to Wayne, pm me your email. I've lost it somehow.
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Old 07-23-2008   #19
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APX100 @ 100, Rodinal 1:100, 20 minutes, 30sec. agitation then 3 inversions every 3 minutes.

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Old 07-23-2008   #20
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Trius, that's just a wonderful image and resolution.
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Old 07-23-2008   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trius View Post
APX100 @ 100, Rodinal 1:100, 20 minutes, 30sec. agitation then 3 inversions every 3 minutes.

This photo has very good contrast and fine details (judging from my small monitor) I will give your method a try, still have 2 rolls of APX100 and Rodinal
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Old 07-23-2008   #22
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That sounds quite stupid, because, e.g. plus-x and tmax100 need 13 minutes in rodinal in the 1+50 dilution, otherwise it gets underdeveloped.

On the other hands, you've read it on TOYCAMERAS dot com. Everything is possible in toycamera world, and mistakes/imperfections are called artistic approach.
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Old 07-24-2008   #23
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I have tested this development method with Ilford PAN 400. I exposed consecutive film frames at EI 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400 and developed it in Rodinal 1+200 for 3h. Every frame was scannable, but EI 50 and 100 were bit too soft (due too heavy overexposure), EI 6400 was bit dark and contrasty.

I use this method when taking photos in "difficult" lightning conditions or when shooting high contrast scenes.

I have also developed like this old unknown film, which I found 16 years after it was exposed (Rodinal 1+200 for 1h, after developing it I found out this was Svema 64).
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Old 07-24-2008   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trius View Post
APX100 @ 100, Rodinal 1:100, 20 minutes, 30sec. agitation then 3 inversions every 3 minutes.


That's very nice. I usually develop it in 1+50 for 14 mins@20degC. There is a 100ft roll of APX100 coming my way, I must try this then. Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2008   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan normandale View Post
Trius, that's just a wonderful image and resolution.
Jan: Thanks ... it's at Eastman House, I'll take you sometime when you're here. Your Blad's large, square neg would be a good choice for that scene.

maddoc & naruto: A yellow-green filter was used, which changed the tonal rendition, of course. It's a good combination. Under flat lighting, 1:100 can produce negs with low contrast, but I prefer that to the opposite. It's easier to increase contrast in PS or in the darkroom, in my experience.

The key with Rodinal is to dial way back on agitation compared to other developers and the "standard" (who made it a standard, and when, anyway?) of agitating every 60 or 30 seconds.
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