Leica M8 ---> Not Happy!

[Ray Kilby]

I sold my M8 and to be honest I miss it terribly. I still use my M6 and I continue love that. I a now use a Nikon D3 with ziess lenses and that is a wonderful if rather bulky camera. Nikon has it's problems, Canon too. So does the M8. I just stopped putting it in my camera bag when going off on a job as I couldn't trust it, regardless of the fact that I have made some wonderful images from it. (Quality of the image, not my own ability I mean. I am not that sure of myself!) What am I trying to say here? I guess what I am saying is, all cameras have their advantages and disadvantages and it is a personal pay off as to which you like and dislike and can live with.

All that said. Have Leica ironed out the back focus issue, accuracy of the range finder lines missfires and odd electronic glitches. I don't mind about a bit of noise.

Could anybody tell me? Because if so I will be wanting to get my hands on one again.

[jsrockit]

Man, did you guys kill this guys love of photography? No pictures on flickr since this post...

[nixphotopix]

wow...i hate the noise above iso 640 and i'll avoid it at all costs. that aside, its a great camera, and the only camera apart from the epson in that category we have to choose from....deal with it. if you don't like it don't buy it. eventually leica will sort there thing out and catch up to the big name standards (maybe). something i look for too. what i really want though is a version from cosina without the epson sensor

[phatnev]

Originally Posted by FioreVelviamo

I don't get it.

I just saw your flickr shots. There are many other issues waaayyy before the noise issue.

I find this post hilarious because yeah his Flickr is suspect, but here are like 30 photos of the same band in the same setting, you should have peeked at his website, he's got some good stuff.

[bo_lorentzen]

LOL....

He is a professional - don't try this at home.

Funny, art is normally thought to be in the eye of the beholder, but calling a critic "slanderous" seems a bit ambitious. if one of his clients do a web-search, they might just find... wait.. nothing of interest what so ever..

Ara volunteers his considerable photography skills at his church.
and is a graphic designer for industry and packaging..

Too bad the M8 don't quite live up to his cutting edge demands, Im sure there will be a DLSR which will please him in the future.

EDIT: I should edit this, it was funny to see the OP's statements, I'm sure Ara is a nice guy, but maybe with a little too big thoughts about himself in this perspective. I understand he have been learning wedding photography the last year so at this point is probably a working professional on Saturdays. Wonder if the M8 have found its way into production by now, there is nothing in google to say what type of professional photography Ara does, my comments is mainly based on his concern what a client might find if they google him...


Bo

www.bophoto.typepad.com

[proenca]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Man, did you guys kill this guys love of photography? No pictures on flickr since this post...

ROTFL...

nice zombie thread that was pulled out of the grave.

had a read and made me laugh a bit

I love Leica and been using it for a few years now - but the M8 has its limits and so the M9.

True 5D and D700 and the likes beat it on the noise department by miles. And cost less.

And ? Live it with. Its the price we have to pay for such compactness and be able to use our M lens.

So even the M8 beats a Hasselblad digital at ISO 640 and that costs 4 times as much... and ? I dont see MF digital users complaining about it...

Every good photographer has to discover the limits of its camera and/or film and use it to hes best ability.

To be honest, when I want to shoot BW with my M8, I never go lower than ISO 640... the noise turns into great grain and I tried every plug in on earth.

Go figure.

[bene]

Hmm maybe that is the compromise Leica. color at low ISO BW at Hi iso. SOund smart to me =)

[abumac]

I am a journalist. I use mine in dng/ color up to 1250 Asa without noise-reduction. And in b+w/ fine jpg at 2500 Asa. And it works if you meter well. If not you will have a lot of noise in the darker parts of the foto.

Have a look here (click on the foto to enlarge it):

2500 Asa:

http://mimpresion.blogspot.com/2009/...-libertad.html
http://mimpresion.blogspot.com/2009/...nstler-46.html
http://mimpresion.blogspot.com/2009/...nstler-45.html

1250 Asa:

http://mimpresion.blogspot.com/2009/...uropa-das.html

[benmacphoto]

Originally Posted by abumac

And it works if you meter well. If not you will have a lot of noise in the darker parts of the foto.

This is the main problem with the ISO quality of the M8 and its users. ISO 1250 looks good if the shot is exposed properly.

[ali_baba]

i have been using a pair of m8's for the last 2 years.
i have finally achieved digital leica happiness with the m9.

however, i was able to get great images sometimes upwards through the ISO range.

the m8 was a ripoff i will say, but it was a good ripoff.

i'm much happier shooting still with my m8 over my d3 for anything other than long focal lengths, which is why i have a d3.

the m8 was fine, now it's old news.
who wants to buy mine?

thanks

[_mark__]

blah blah blah

[NickTrop]

Originally Posted by EtoileFinder

But, as I'm reading on the M8, it seems there's a lot of disastisfaction, that's the other reason why I bought the r-d1. I can understand the frustration when you just throw away about 5000 $ for an M8, and it is not fufill some minimal expectations. By the way, for a cheap alternative for shooting in low light condition, there's the shoot and point fuji f30.

Brand defense!!! Woot woot! These threads are hilarious. Some of youse defend Leica's honor more than you'd defend your wife's. There ARE minimal expectations of cameras. Technology has reached a certain threshold, a certain minimum standard. Leica failed to meet it with the M8. Period. Years prior to the arrival of the M8, an quality/ISO capability standard was set by Nikon and Canon's DSLRs. Leice fell way short of this while at the same time continued to charge Leica prices.

Yet, they still absolutely gouged their "cult" - and that's all that it can be described as. You Leicaphiles are like Moonies, climate change deniers, "birthers" (who believe Obama is not a US citizen) etc. No point in arguing with you.

I have a sibling of the F30, the F20 - same "Super" CCD by Fuji. No problem shooting up to ISO 800. Fine. 1600 is even okay for small prints. That camera cost a couple hundred bucks new when it came out, round the same time as the M8. It is unacceptable that a camera that costs 25X as much as this can't do ISO above 320. Every pro camera can, every cheap consumer DSLR can, and the whole rangefinder thing is all about natural and low light shooting. Add to this the ridiculous fact that you have to slap a filter on the thing because of their IR sensor issue...

Please.

Clearly, you're paying for a little red dot. And that's it. And the M8 is a dog. Beautifully manufactured, sure, but a dog none the less. But a photographic tool isn't about how well the thing is manufactured. It's about capabilities. They manufactured a beautiful "golden slide rule" to the highest manufacturing specifications in the age of cheap graphing algebraic calculators you can get for 1/25th the price. The person who started this thread was only being intellectually honest. Defenders need deprogramming.
|
Thing of it.... In defending this $5000 camera, someone suggested getting a used Fuji Finepix that go for around $100 used and didn't cost more than $200 new - that is to say, buy this cheap consumer point-n-shoot to "fill the gaps" of your $5000 Leica. Please. Quit giving Leica a pass.

[dfoo]

Down boy down!

[NickTrop]

Originally Posted by dfoo

Down boy down!

Sorry, Dfoo... But for the cost of this camera, the M8, there should be no compromises. It should be cutting edge. It isn't. It even fell way short of the standards as a photographic tool set by consumer-level DSLRs at its release. Add the that the kludge of having to slap an IR filter on your lens (and what if you have many lenses with different sized threads? Wha - ? Do tell. A filter for every one? Or just "deal"... )

Don't like the problems of the M8? Sell it and throw a couple more thousand and buy the corrected M9.

I know what that red dot is. It's a testicle. Leica's got balls.
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[NickTrop]

Do you think Leica released the M8, knowing it was inadequate, as part of an overall marketing stratergy to get you to buy two cameras that cost $5000 in the span of a few years... knowing that the Leica cult would pitch their M8 on the used market (which doesn't benefit Leica) to fund the purchase of their "fixed" M9?

Leica's success always had as much to do with branding - product, price, placement, and promotion as it did with their mechanical engineering prowess. Leica gets - what, around $12,000 in revenue from each cult member is a two-three year span, using this marketing stratergy... Build up anticipation... when are they coming out with a "digital rangefinder" - oh when, oh when??? ... till the demand is like a star about to Super Nova, the cultists were waving their credit cards and check books to their messiah ready to buy anything with the little red testicle symbol on it.... Then God comes down from the mountain, camera raised high about his head, and gives the cult member the sacred "beta" - a camera with enough annoyance to be discovered like "easter eggs" in video games, 'cept these weren't fun ones... Hey - ISO looks crappy!!! Hey, what's with this filter!!! Thus, these annoyances prompted the cult to ditch the "beta", sell it on the used market to the poorer cult members, thus funding the second $5000+ camera purchase in a couple of years...

Hilarious... What a grift.

Instead of "cutting edge" photographic tools, Leica gave us "cutting edge planned obsolescence"... Nice.

Remember... Red dot = testicle. Leica's got balls.
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[NickTrop]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

Nick, why are you interested in [discussing] a camera you would never buy even if it cost $500? Seems odd to drag up this old thread.

I was in the mood for a little Leica bashing this morning over a cup of coffee. That's all...
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[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by NickTrop

Brand defense!!! Woot woot! These threads are hilarious. Some of youse defend Leica's honor more than you'd defend your wife's.

1) I do not "defend Leica's honor"; I highly question the intelligence behind people's bashing motives. Usually, they're blinded by ignorance more than they are by the price tag.

2a) The hyper-generalizations spewed in Leica threads by those who have a huge Leica chip on their shoulders then (laughably) turn around against those who point out their fallacies and call them "brand defenders"

2b) I refer to these people with a "Leica chip on their shoulder" Leica Pirates who also hold the "brand" as their Moby Dick.

3) I don't have a wife. Not everybody fits you pirates' world pigeonholing.

[NickTrop]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

But it is like making fun of someone wearing a brand new Rolex. Too easy.

... yeah, truth be told, though I'm a little pissy cause I have two feet of snow do dig out from under. It was either bash Leica or kick the cat. I chose Leica. My cat is grateful.
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[_mark__]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

But it is like making fun of someone wearing a brand new Rolex. Too easy.

I'd take a nice shiny new Rolex over an M8 any day of the week! :-)

[NickTrop]

@Gabriel MA - Oops I did it again. You're as angry at my dissing your camera as you would be if I dissed your spouse if you had one. I knew someone would take the bait and prove my point. Now don't go gettin' all Yosemite Sam-y on me. All in fun.

[cmogi10]

Originally Posted by _mark__

I'd take a nice shiny new Rolex over an M8 any day of the week! :-)

Only some of us are photographers.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by NickTrop

Instead of "cutting edge" photographic tools, Leica gave us "cutting edge planned obsolescence"... Nice.

If you want cutting edge, you don't buy a rangefinder. All camera companies are dealing in planned obsolescence. Jeez.

[micromontenegro]

I know it is not PC, and I have never really done it, but sometimes my cat deserves a kick. Of course, Leica bashing is just much more fun.

[proenca]

Originally Posted by NickTrop

Brand defense!!! Woot woot! These threads are hilarious. Some of youse defend Leica's honor more than you'd defend your wife's. There ARE minimal expectations of cameras. Technology has reached a certain threshold, a certain minimum standard. Leica failed to meet it with the M8. Period. Years prior to the arrival of the M8, an quality/ISO capability standard was set by Nikon and Canon's DSLRs. Leice fell way short of this while at the same time continued to charge Leica prices.

Yet, they still absolutely gouged their "cult" - and that's all that it can be described as. You Leicaphiles are like Moonies, climate change deniers, "birthers" (who believe Obama is not a US citizen) etc. No point in arguing with you.

I have a sibling of the F30, the F20 - same "Super" CCD by Fuji. No problem shooting up to ISO 800. Fine. 1600 is even okay for small prints. That camera cost a couple hundred bucks new when it came out, round the same time as the M8. It is unacceptable that a camera that costs 25X as much as this can't do ISO above 320. Every pro camera can, every cheap consumer DSLR can, and the whole rangefinder thing is all about natural and low light shooting. Add to this the ridiculous fact that you have to slap a filter on the thing because of their IR sensor issue...

Please.

Clearly, you're paying for a little red dot. And that's it. And the M8 is a dog. Beautifully manufactured, sure, but a dog none the less. But a photographic tool isn't about how well the thing is manufactured. It's about capabilities. They manufactured a beautiful "golden slide rule" to the highest manufacturing specifications in the age of cheap graphing algebraic calculators you can get for 1/25th the price. The person who started this thread was only being intellectually honest. Defenders need deprogramming.
|
Thing of it.... In defending this $5000 camera, someone suggested getting a used Fuji Finepix that go for around $100 used and didn't cost more than $200 new - that is to say, buy this cheap consumer point-n-shoot to "fill the gaps" of your $5000 Leica. Please. Quit giving Leica a pass.

Nick,

You are going on the same road than those Moonies you are bashing.....

Yes a Fufjifilm F20 may have better ISO performance than a M8. And your point is ?

The Leica M8 or even the M9 has limitations. First because the M8 was one of the first ( well second behind RD-1 ) groundbreaking designs : a digital rangefinder.

That involved a lot of R&D and things will get better with time.

Groundbreaking designs and technology ( micro lenses in the sensor, IR sensitivity to deal with, etc etc ) , when they are new have lot of issues.

Heck mate, we even had to deal with green lines and God knows what.

But we prevailed. And we have a great camera. Sure, has its limits and limitations but nothing is perfect, otherwise we all would lug a H4D and a trolley of lenses around.

Which by the way, many point and shoots have better high iso performace than most medium format camera which costs in the region of 30 to 40k usd... and I dont see people complaining.

The M8 is just that : a different tool.

Like a digital medium format camera is a different tool.

And they shouldnt be compared to outside their format : but within.

Compare the M8 with the RD-1.

Yap, dSLR's have more fps, better ISO, yadadada. And ? They are AGAIN a different tool.

Horses for Courses my friend.

As far as I recall, no one forced anyone to buy a M8 or a M9.

If you dont like it, sell it. Move on.

Some people, like me, the ability of using my collection of Leica lens on a digital body is simply fastastic, even if that comes with tradeoff's, which are well known.

For you might not be the case. So go on and take pictures with your F20 and I will take with my M8. And we BOTH are happy.

You are a moonie my friend. The type I see everytime I park my car and start mumbling that a super duper Toyota/Nissan/Japanese Car whatever-model-that-is-that-ends-with-lots-of-red-letters-and-Z-or-R has the same or better performance than my car for one third of the price and I'm silly.

Perhaps.

But I'm a happy silly man driving my Porsche.

[proenca]

Originally Posted by cmogi10

Only some of us are photographers.

This phrase and the one you quoted one, deserve a Tshirt

Brilliant !