Workflow and general rant

[rover]

The first roll of TMax 100 taken with my Canon 50/1.5 is drying. Hanging for only about an hour and it is already curled . I need to figure this out as it really is throwing the focus of my scanner off and trying my already short temper. I don't like things not working with me, a bunch of tupperware ended up in this weeks garbage when it fell out of the cabinent onto me.

But, I have decided to take a couple minutes to make a workflow checklist to use when processing film. Something to keep me on track as I never do just one thing at a time and this morning got a little confuses.

TMax 100 shot as 100 processed in D-76 1:1 for 7.5 minutes. As I empty my graduates though, I was them between aggitations, and this morning I lost count of my time, "has it been 3 minutes or 4?" I think I guessed right, I will scan tonight.

I have settled on Tri X and Plus X as films and D-76 and Diafine for developers (I may add some HC110 to keep in concentrate because it will last forever and you never know when it will come in handy). I am still to decide on a super fast film and developer combo for night shots. Any thoughts on DD-X, can it be mixed from concentrate like HC110 and will it last for a long time in that state? I think X-Tol and TMZ would work fine, but I would prefer a liquid concentrate developer.

Well, back to workflow, yes a check list so I don't loose my place. I also just use a clock with a seconds hand, no timer. Processing is like horseshoes though, close enough counts, so I don't feel any rush to find a timer.

Does anyone use a film dryer? Will it save me from my curled film hell? They are too expensive though. ho hummmmm

[back alley]

i use a timer, found a great little one years ago for cheap. it has a loud bell when it time is up. i hang my film in the my basement darkroom. i use weighted clips on the bottom, usually 2. my tri-x & delta film does not curl at all. it is bone dry on the prairies though and i'm not sure if 'relative humidity' is an influencing factor.

and i love tupperware so next time i'll pay for the postage...

joe

[rover]

It curls the the length, from side to side not long ways. I could deal with long ways, the film holder on the scanner will flatten that out, but with a "bow" in the negative strip I have issues. I may try to rig up some tooth picks to form a press or two which I will tape to the holder to flatten the film by pressing down between frames.

I wonder if I have tooth picks, or if I just dumped them after the last time they fell out all over the floor?

[denishr]

Ralph, are you weighing the negs as they dry? I mean, do you clip something on the lower end of the film? Or it just hangs "freely"? That might be the reason. Try clipping something heavier on the lower end of the film - might help a bit, I guess.

As for the workflow, I'll put in a shameless plug again - for a Palm Pilot organizer and FotoTimer software... I'm rather untidy, and I'm always searching for my notes, scribbled on pieces of paper in the darkroom. Once I got in the habit of writing those notes on the Palm, I'm much happier.

I know we "analog" people are usually reluctant when it comes to depending on digital gizmos, but my Palm has been a blessing.
I use it first and foremost as a universal darkroom timer - both for developing negatives and for making prints (as an enlarger timer). The "FotoTimer" software is extremely helpful, versatile and reliable. Check out my Web pages for links and photos. I have most of my processes pre-programmed, and the whole thing runs automatically - starting from pre-wash, to development, stop-bath, fixing, and ending with final washing. Everything properly timed, and you can program automatic or manually-controlled pauses between the processing steps. And you can always see the elapsed/remaining time on the display (and you also hear beeps and alarms, if you want them, e.g. five beeps every minute for agitation, etc.).... I don't know how I would do test strips without it again

Plus, I have a copy of DigitalTruth massive development chart in Palm format there
I have also done a tiny database with my film-developer combinations, with notes, plus-minus development times, chemical quantities required for different tanks, etc....

You can also use it for note-taking in the field, to write down the exposure data, etc.. - if you need that...

In short, it has made my darkroom work much easier and controlled. No more wild variables in agitation, timing of development, etc...

Another extremely useful device I got was a digital thermometer. It measures temperatures of the chemicals to 0.1 degree C, and it helped me immensely in having consistent results....

Sorry, cannot comment on the choice of developers... Some of the stuff you use is not easily available in Croatia, and some of the stuff I use (Rodinal, Rodinal Special) is not easily found in USA.... Others will probably chime in...

BTW, if anyone wants it, I can provide my database for film-developer combinations - you can use it as it is and also add your own combinations - it's a ThinkDB relational database, with three tables: Developers, Films and Film-Developer combinations.

Denis

[back alley]

curls side to side? that's f***ing bizarre!
i have never had that and don't have a clue as to a fix.

i need coffee, be right back.

joe

[denishr]

Hmm, I just read your explanation above re lenghtwise curl.

The only solution I have for that is to cut the neg into strips, file them into the neg filing sheets, and leave under a heavy book for a day... Usually solves the problem. Although it's not feasible if you want to scan the negs the same day - as I usually do

Denis

[rover]

Denis, yes I have Paterson clips, which the bottom ones are weighted slightly.

I have a Palm, but use a Day Planner calendar, hopeless luddite, though the software is great to keep my address book.

I printed out all the tech data for the films and developers I possibly will use, so I am all set for info. By limiting what I use I will hopefully be able to adjust based on my results over time and improve my end product with experience.

I do think I need to put some type of time on my list. I think I would prefer a digital countdown one.

[rover]

Originally Posted by denishr

Hmm, I just read your explanation above re lenghtwise curl.

The only solution I have for that is to cut the neg into strips, file them into the neg filing sheets, and leave under a heavy book for a day... Usually solves the problem. Although it's not feasible if you want to scan the negs the same day - as I usually do

Denis

Done that, these resilient little f'ers just bow again after a day or so when the book it taken off. I am going to try to scan quickly today after I cut them.

[back alley]

ralph,

put extra weights on the bottom.

are you hanging the film in one long piece? where?
are you using the patterson clips for the top also as this holds the film across the entire width.

joe

[denishr]

Rover, if you already have a Palm, you don't need ANY OTHER TIMER!!! (sorry for shouting )....
Download and install the Foto Timer, enter your processes, and you're set to go! Try it out...

I can even send you my database for FotoTimer - everything is already set, you just need to change the development time...

Denis

PS: edited to better show the link to FotoTimer

[jan normandale]

When I get professional developing done the film is put into a clear plastic sleeve. Then the lab rolls the length of film in the sleeve around a 3-4 cm dia cardboard tube and snaps an elastic around the film on the tube. This takes the curl out and flattens the film.

If you have ever taken film into a lab ask them for a favour. Get a sleeve to match the length of film and then if they don't have a tube/cylinder just improvise. Roll the film in the sleeve with the curled side's back against the cylinder , leave for a day and then take it out and hang it again with the weights. This helps flatten it. Then place it into a book of sleeves or however you usually store your negs.

Jan

[ray_g]

denis, the link to your webpage does not seem to work...

[denishr]

Ray, it works OK for me... Check again - I've underlined the original link....

Denis

[GeneW]

Ralph, You're not alone! There have been a few threads on this film-curving issue on pnet. There's a general consensus that Kodak has gone towards a thinner base with its latest generation of B&W films which are all manufactured now in a single plant. I notice much more side-to-side curl with Kodak films than with Ilford or Fuji. Weight at the bottom of the strip while drying doesn't help much with this. Weighing the film under a heavy book takes about a week to tame down the curl for scanning.

That's why, after it's dry, I gently roll the film into a reverse curl emulsion side out, pop a rubber band around it, and let it stay that way overnight. Even with this there's a tiny bit of residual curl, but it's useable in a scanner.

Gene

[rover]

Originally Posted by backalley photo

ralph,

put extra weights on the bottom.

are you hanging the film in one long piece? where?
are you using the patterson clips for the top also as this holds the film across the entire width.

joe

Yes, the bottom is weigthed
Yes, one strip
Yes, the Paterson Clips that hold the entire width of the film

[rover]

Originally Posted by denishr

Rover, if you already have a Palm, you don't need ANY OTHER TIMER!!! (sorry for shouting )....
Download and install the Foto Timer, enter your processes, and you're set to go! Try it out...

I can even send you my database for FotoTimer - everything is already set, you just need to change the development time...

Denis

PS: edited to better show the link to FotoTimer

That does sound like a good option, I will give it a go. If the database isn't available where I can find it Denis I will shot you a note.

[rover]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Ralph, You're not alone! There have been a few threads on this film-curving issue on pnet. There's a general consensus that Kodak has gone towards a thinner base with its latest generation of B&W films which are all manufactured now in a single plant. I notice much more side-to-side curl with Kodak films than with Ilford or Fuji. Weight at the bottom of the strip while drying doesn't help much with this. Weighing the film under a heavy book takes about a week to tame down the curl for scanning.

That's why, after it's dry, I gently roll the film into a reverse curl emulsion side out, pop a rubber band around it, and let it stay that way overnight. Even with this there's a tiny bit of residual curl, but it's useable in a scanner.

Gene

The last roll I had problems scanning I used your recommendation to roll it and let it sit over night. It was flat when I cut it, but a day or so later, in the sleeves (Print File Page), I noticed the bow was back.

I am going to scan as soon as I cut this roll, after I unroll it as you recommend.

[rover]

Oh yeah, workflow processing page.

Too anal?

(Excel spreadsheet converted to .txt to attach so format is a little different than the original)

[FrankS]

You see, I am not scanning my negs so I don't have a problem with the side to side curve of a neg. It gets flattened out when printing by the neg carrier of the enlarger. I then scan my prints on a flatbed scanner. I have been thinking about getting a neg scanner to speed things up (the darkroom printing is the most time-consuming, but still enjoyable aspect of photography). I need to wait until prices come down and they have come up with better neg carrier systems to address the film curl issue.

[denishr]

Originally Posted by rover

That does sound like a good option, I will give it a go. If the database isn't available where I can find it Denis I will shot you a note.

Check out the link for Foto Timer I provided above. You can download the software (freeware!) from there, and you'll also find very good instructions there. If you need more help, or a "ready-to-go" set of chain-events, drop me a line...

Denis

[back alley]

my scanner was very chaep, it cost me a used oly 35 rc.

i have no curl with new kodak tri-x, none. the film strip neg carrier for the canon 2710 works very well.
i process normally and use a wetting agent at the end but nothing special re. film curl. i also use the patterson clips, 2 at the bottom.

i wonder if the humidity might influence it as it is usually very dry here in the west.

joe

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by backalley photo

i wonder if the humidity might influence it as it is usually very dry here in the west.

joe

It might be a factor. As I say, I get this particular curl with Kodak films. Ilford and Fuji don't seem to curl as much.

Gene

[rover]

Originally Posted by FrankS

You see, I am not scanning my negs so I don't have a problem with the side to side curve of a neg. It gets flattened out when printing by the neg carrier of the enlarger. I then scan my prints on a flatbed scanner. I have been thinking about getting a neg scanner to speed things up (the darkroom printing is the most time-consuming, but still enjoyable aspect of photography). I need to wait until prices come down and they have come up with better neg carrier systems to address the film curl issue.

My scanner is an Epson 3200. It does a nice job, but the next generation Epsons were designed more with film in mind, so the impovements may already be available.

Film is rolled and in the zip lock bag to keep the dust away.

[rover]

I am scanning fast, and the negs still want to curl.

When flat though I can get some sharpness.

The first frame taken with my 50/1.5 Canon.
TMax 100 in D76.
Yellow filter, 50/1.9 square hood.

[RayPA]

Originally Posted by denishr

Check out the link for Foto Timer I provided above. You can download the software (freeware!) from there, and you'll also find very good instructions there. If you need more help, or a "ready-to-go" set of chain-events, drop me a line...

Denis

Denis, I'm gonna try your Palm setup. I'm bummed though. I haven't used my Palm in a long time. I forgot about it actually, until I saw your post and pulled it out. It was dead. I got some AAA's, booted it up, and all my cool apps are gone. But I'm gonna incorporate it into the development workflow, putting it back into service.