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Nikon digital rangefinder M mount?
Old 05-21-2008   #1
alan davus
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Nikon digital rangefinder M mount?

Have just been reading Mainlinephoto News (Mainlinephoto sell and distribute CV stuff Downunder) and I'll Quote: "Is it fact or fiction?" (regarding the possible release of two new Nikon cameras "But the one of most interest to us rangefinder guys is the non SLR camera with a 6 or 7mpx sensor. This unit will, as rumour has it, use M bayonet mount lenses. It will probably be released with a 45 pancake lens as a ready to use kit. I have heard it could be produced by our friends at Cosina."...... Anyone heard a similar story?. I remember several years ago hearing about the R4 Bessas on the M/Photo website before stories appeared anywhere else.
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Old 05-21-2008   #2
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Oh, if only.

Have a word with Stephen Gandy. He posted here that there is substance to the rumour, in that they HAVE been working on a prototype. But prototypes don't always make ti to market, cf the digital Konica Hexar AF that I have now been lusting after for a couple of years...
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Old 05-21-2008   #3
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With so many digital RF rumours flying around from Gandy, Mainline etc, SOMETHING has to be in the works. I'm hearing less about the new 5D then I am about a new digital RF!! Thats saying something.

I think there will be something to show at Photokina.

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Old 05-21-2008   #4
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My gut feeling regarding Nikon and Drf's is that something is definitely up. I was floored when I opened up the latest Asahi Camera magazine yesterday to read the several page spread on the reissue SP and S3, several rf lenses new and old, and the SPX that was developed in the 60s with an M-mount but never went on sale. I've never seen any magazine in Japan in recent years cover Nikon RF gear with so much detail. A teaser for something new in Nikon RF? I hope so!
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Old 05-21-2008   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
My gut feeling regarding Nikon and Drf's is that something is definitely up. I was floored when I opened up the latest Asahi Camera magazine yesterday to read the several page spread on the reissue SP and S3, several rf lenses new and old, and the SPX that was developed in the 60s with an M-mount but never went on sale. I've never seen any magazine in Japan in recent years cover Nikon RF gear with so much detail. A teaser for something new in Nikon RF? I hope so!
I never rely on rumours. Speaking of the SPX, yes backwards rumoring still tells the prototype had M-mount and TTL metering.

But - if you just look at the photos of the two real SPX prototypes, you see that it has :
- a Nikon-S mount with the same Contax/Nikon focusing wheel as the other S-rangefinders do
- absolutely no TTL metering, this is obvious in that there is a coupling dot on the speeds selector disk to accomodate for an external light meter, probably the same as the first external selenium coupled light meter of the Nikon F.

Yet I do hope that Nikon is onto something re. a possible D-RF camera featuring an electronic rangefinder, a live-view mode, a flip-and-turn screen, and the like. This would pour a bit of salt and pepper in all those boring M8-related threads.
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Old 05-21-2008   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
I never rely on rumours. Speaking of the SPX, yes backwards rumoring still tells the prototype had M-mount and TTL metering.
Very wise not to rely on rumours, however the photo in the Asahi Camera magazine is of an M-mount Nikon SPX. I will post a picture of the magazine page when I get home tonight.

Regarding the SPX with TTL metering, Nikon says they developed the SPX with TTL metering on this page (toward the bottom).
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Old 05-21-2008   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan davus View Post
Have just been reading Mainlinephoto News (Mainlinephoto sell and distribute CV stuff Downunder) and I'll Quote: "Is it fact or fiction?" (regarding the possible release of two new Nikon cameras "But the one of most interest to us rangefinder guys is the non SLR camera with a 6 or 7mpx sensor. This unit will, as rumour has it, use M bayonet mount lenses. It will probably be released with a 45 pancake lens as a ready to use kit. I have heard it could be produced by our friends at Cosina."...... Anyone heard a similar story?. I remember several years ago hearing about the R4 Bessas on the M/Photo website before stories appeared anywhere else.
The guy who owns Mainline appears to have a pretty tight relationship with Cosina ... he actually sold me my M8! When I was shopping for a 15mm Heliar they had a deal on an M8 Kit that came with the 21mm finder for an excellent price ... it was boxed and marked as an M8 kit and I noted that he had it available before anyone else!

He may have been given some info from the top!
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Old 05-21-2008   #8
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Very wise not to rely on rumours, however the photo in the Asahi Camera magazine is of an M-mount Nikon SPX. I will post a picture of the magazine page when I get home tonight.
Regarding the SPX with TTL metering, Nikon says they developed the SPX with TTL metering on this page (toward the bottom).


Well, I don't get those の登場後も TTL 測光の quite clear but I suppose you're speaking of this SPX :

http://www.newprouk.co.uk/rotoloni%20reviews%20JE.htm

(photo #4). Yes it has a M-mount and what looks to be a TTL lightmeter, no doubt whatsoever.

However it seems that the only SPX's having finally shown-up as in-the-flesh completed cameras (some lucky fellows even report they have seen them at some NHS' shows) look to be these two ones (two variants, with the main variations re. the speeds selector dial and frames selector colors) :



They're quoted by Stephen G. and also in an article by Fred K. :

http://www.nikonhs.org/editorials/ed...er_may_02.html

OTOH I doubt that the M-mount SPX could have been released. The M-mount wasn't public-licensed at that time yet, and I can't think of Nikon paying an expensive tribute to the Ernst Leitz Wetzlar GmbH company for the M-mount manufacture and use rights...

Also interesting to see that the M-mount & TTL-metered SPX borrowed the very flip-and-fold rewind crank design of the Canon VI-T and P...

Last edited by Highway 61 : 12-03-2008 at 11:05.
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Old 05-21-2008   #9
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Quote:
Have just been reading Mainlinephoto News
Just to fix the "source" of our discussion Vol 18 issue 1
Article: Rufus´ gossip mill
http://www.mainlinephoto.com.au/newsletter.pdf
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Old 05-21-2008   #10
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Old 05-21-2008   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post


Well, I don't get those の登場後も TTL 測光の quite clear but I suppose you're speaking of this SPX :

http://www.newprouk.co.uk/rotoloni%20reviews%20JE.htm

(photo #4). Yes it has a M-mount and what looks to be a TTL lightmeter, no doubt whatsoever.

However it seems that the only SPX's having finally shown-up as in-the-flesh completed cameras (some lucky fellows even report they have seen them at some NHS' shows) look to be these two ones (two variants, with the main variations re. the speeds selector dial and frames selector colors) :

They're quoted by Stephen G. and also in an article by Fred K. :

http://www.nikonhs.org/editorials/ed...er_may_02.html

OTOH I doubt that the M-mount SPX could have been released. The M-mount wasn't public-licensed at that time yet, and I can't think of Nikon paying an expensive tribute to the Ernst Leitz Wetzlar GmbH company for the M-mount manufacture and use rights...

Also interesting to see that the M-mount & TTL-metered SPX borrowed the very flip-and-fold rewind crank design of the Canon VI-T and P...
Ok here's a shot of the SPX photo in the Asahi Camera June 2008 Issue (the photo was provided by Nikon to Asahi Camera ). I should have read the article more carefully because as it says in the article, and as you can see by the photo, the SPX mount is not M-mount. Rather than the four "claw" M-mount, the mount on this SPX is a three "claw" mount (looks rather F-mount-ish to me).

TTL 測光の「Nikon SPX」 translates to "Nikon SPX with TTL metering".


Last edited by jonmanjiro : 05-21-2008 at 05:44.
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Old 05-21-2008   #12
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Here's a better shot of the SPX photo in Asahi Camera (photo provided by Nikon to Asahi Camera)

In Rotoloni's latest book, pages 130 to 133 cover the "SP2" which has the focus gear wheel and an S-mount as shown above, and pages 134 to 135 cover the "SPX" which has the same mount as the SPX camera shown in Asahi Camera magazine (below).


Last edited by jonmanjiro : 05-21-2008 at 04:30.
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Old 05-21-2008   #13
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Wish that was true. I'm not going to sell my film RF, but I'd sell my Canon 350D + 10-22 lens as part of the payment of a Nikon DRF in M mount as long as the price is ok. What I hate about digital is that everything is outdated in 6 months maximum. Maybe not so with a DRF body, but certainly with DSLR bodies.
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Old 05-21-2008   #14
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Define outdated. Do they suddenly stop taking good pictures if they did before?
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Old 05-21-2008   #15
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Quote:
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Define outdated. Do they suddenly stop taking good pictures if they did before?
No, in the Dslr world outdated means just technically superior enough to induce a severe case of GAS.
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Old 05-21-2008   #16
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my personal feeling, is that after you get a FF DSLR, you do not need to update.

Megapixels updates are worthless at this stage, focusing points are more than enough, FPS are just plain too much for a normal usage, so... I don't see a point in upgrading, except perhaps in camera anti-camera shake stuff, other than that, I don't see a MUST HAVE feature.
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Old 05-21-2008   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Here's a better shot of the SPX photo in Asahi Camera (photo provided by Nikon to Asahi Camera)

In Rotoloni's latest book, pages 130 to 133 cover the "SP2" which has the focus gear wheel and an S-mount as shown above, and pages 134 to 135 cover the "SPX" which has the same mount as the SPX camera shown in Asahi Camera magazine (below).
Very interesting, it suggests that what we had been refering to by calling it the "SPX" (the one I displayed above, picture from Shibata's "Nikon Story Book") was actually the "SP2". I had never seen "that other" SPX before having looked at the last issue of Rotoloni's book.

Well, the mystery subsists nonetheless re. the "SPII" which was, according to rumours (I like rumours... ) a SP with a missing and blankened-out secondary 28/35 finder.

Howzabout launching a new rumour telling that the recent 28/35 Cosina-Voigtländer minifinder is actually made with the 28/35 SP's finders stock parts which Nikon didn't use in their SPII bodies ?

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Old 05-21-2008   #18
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I can see updating after a significant improvement in dynamic range of the sensors or whatever, so I can imagine a replacement cycle every few years until dynamic range is "good enough", but other than that it's just the status of owning the latest and greatest.
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Old 05-21-2008   #19
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my personal feeling, is that after you get a FF DSLR, you do not need to update.
Define what is a "FF" digital camera... (well, good luck).

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Old 05-21-2008   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Here's a better shot of the SPX photo in Asahi Camera (photo provided by Nikon to Asahi Camera)

In Rotoloni's latest book, pages 130 to 133 cover the "SP2" which has the focus gear wheel and an S-mount as shown above, and pages 134 to 135 cover the "SPX" which has the same mount as the SPX camera shown in Asahi Camera magazine (below).

emmmmmmmm ...
that mount may be inspired by the leica M-mount, but it is not the same.
keep in mind: leica has 4 claws, with a 45° angle of rotation.

this looks more like a modification of the f-mount (3 claws, more or less 60° rotation).

cheers
s.
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Old 05-21-2008   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colman View Post
I can see updating after a significant improvement in dynamic range of the sensors or whatever, so I can imagine a replacement cycle every few years until dynamic range is "good enough", but other than that it's just the status of owning the latest and greatest.
Nikon D3 has this:
  • EXPEED image processing engine with 14-bit A/D conversion and 16-bit image processing for superb tonal gradation.
How much more do you need?
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Old 05-21-2008   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Define what is a "FF" digital camera... (well, good luck).

a full frame camera? I'm lost
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Old 05-21-2008   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastel View Post
emmmmmmmm ...
that mount may be inspired by the leica M-mount, but it is not the same.
keep in mind: leica has 4 claws, with a 45° angle of rotation.

this looks more like a modification of the f-mount (3 claws, more or less 60° rotation).

cheers
s.
yep, it got lost in the text but i did mention that in post 11 above

thanks
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Old 05-21-2008   #24
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Im waiting for someone to say: "I buy it if it has FF, No filters, no coding, the iso of the D3, Antishake, liveview, silent shutter etc and that it cost under 2K$"

But I sure hope they will produce it. Competition is always welcome.
If they produce the camera you describe it won't be "competition" anymore - more like "demolition"
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Old 05-21-2008   #25
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Im waiting for someone to say: "I buy it if it has FF, No filters, no coding, the iso of the D3, Antishake, liveview, silent shutter etc and that it cost under 2K$"
You forgot Face Detection. Hello?
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