TRIX 3200 isos rodinal 1+100 souped for 2h30
Old 01-27-2008   #1
le vrai rdu
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TRIX 3200 isos rodinal 1+100 souped for 2h30

This week end I tried trix @ 3200 isos rodinal 1+100 souped for 2h30 , stand developement

Notice: one must be careful in metering the scene, overexposing gives burned whites and underexposed is not really nice but still exploitable. So I used my sekonic 208, incident light metering



a crop of the previous picture













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Old 01-27-2008   #2
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Nicely done. I think I've gone out to at least 6400 if not 12800 (or somewhere in between) with 3 hour stand, and the results are impressive, no question.
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Old 01-28-2008   #3
le vrai rdu
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Well I will try 6400 and 12500 iso then
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Old 01-28-2008   #4
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Very pleasing results.
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Old 01-28-2008   #5
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Nice try but I wouldn't do that for a regular basis.
Soaking a film for a very long time may damage it permanently
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Old 01-28-2008   #6
le vrai rdu
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mine looks fine, no damages on the film
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Old 01-28-2008   #7
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Very pleasnt. Seems the grain left in the developer
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Old 01-28-2008   #8
wde60
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Well done!
Similar results have also been posted here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...hlight=rodinal
And there was a photographer in Montreal who also posted some wonderful photos with high ISO/stand developed Tri-x a long while ago
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Old 01-28-2008   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wde60
Well done!
Similar results have also been posted here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...hlight=rodinal
And there was a photographer in Montreal who also posted some wonderful photos with high ISO/stand developed Tri-x a long while ago

If if Pepe did it for 1hour, I suspect 2h30 min are waste time, meaning Rodinal has nothibg to add...Only my curios thought
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Old 01-28-2008   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lZr
If if Pepe did it for 1hour, I suspect 2h30 min are waste time, meaning Rodinal has nothibg to add...Only my curios thought
Pepe said " Agitating using the spinner at the start, and after 45 minutes a thwirl every five minutes. " I didn't agitated my soup, that is why we have differents times
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Old 01-28-2008   #11
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Thanks. Gorgeous results
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Old 01-28-2008   #12
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At, I assume, some normal room temperature? Have you tried higher temperature to shorten times?
Years ago (Late 1950's) there was a developer named Von-El. Their developing charts went up to 100 deg F. When Tri-X was still rated at 200 ASA, my brother took some photos in a nite club at 1500 ASA, and used the maximum recommended time and temperature. Came out pretty good, although the shadow areas were blank.
Just wondering.
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Old 01-28-2008   #13
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It seems that TriX is the favourite one for this kind of experiments, but did anybody try with another film? I use primarily apx400, and would be interesting to see how it works with stand development and high ISOs...
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Old 01-28-2008   #14
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I used apx400 and I don't think it would work, it is said that it is not really a pushable film :/
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Old 01-28-2008   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le vrai rdu
I used apx400 and I don't think it would work, it is said that it is not really a pushable film :/
I also use apx100, and that's another film that shouldn't be pushed. but I usually take it one or two stops over, if necessary...
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Old 01-28-2008   #16
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Well, I paid half the price of a trix for a roll of apx, o I think you can afford in a try, I still have some APX 400, I use it for camera tests and experiments, so I think I will try but I don't have much hope concerning the result
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Old 01-28-2008   #17
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Today I pulled of a very strange trick..

I loaded a tank with two rolls of fomapan 400, one of them shot at ISO 3200 (I recall now), and then developed them for two hours in 1:100 rodinal....

So thats two wrongs,
1: for 2 hour development the mix should be 1:200, not 1:100
2. loading one pushed film, 3 steps!, with one properly exposed

My negs are still drying so I havent been able to look at them closely..
But still, both rolls looks ok, at least for scanning.
Stand development is amazing
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Old 01-28-2008   #18
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I'm not sure I understand the need to take a picture of a horse in broad daylight with TriX at 3200 E.I. especially considering the concomitant decrease in tonal values and the increase in grain, but I'm with sitemistic on testing for true E.I. If le vrai is having trouble with blown out highlights the problem would probably be over developing rather than metering. By reducing exposure by three stops (E.I. 3200), it would be hard to over expose the highlights. Rodinal has the reputation of being a 'compensating like developer' so highlights should be easy to control by reducing the 'stand development' time.

Here is a woman that does stand development with Rodinal also using TriX (and other films). She is not pushing but she sure gets great results:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yolise/350780526/
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Old 01-28-2008   #19
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Can someone explain this stand development thing to me please?!

I know very well I'm no expert in film development but I do know, that with one or two exceptions, Diafine springing instantly to mind, you develop a film for a given time depending on the film stock, it's speed (taking into account a push or pull) and temperature.

With stand development, much of this appears to go out of the window: People use dillutions of 1:100 and 1:200 for between 1-3 hrs with film shot between 400 and 12800 - and all seem to get away with it! I take Sitemistic's point about "true" ISO but all the same - the results are astonishing and I look forward to an explanation of the phenomenon.

Thanks

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Old 01-28-2008   #20
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great shots. I have no problem with clipped highlights. It is what Trix films do and I love broad midtones and care much less for clipped shadows and highligts.
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Old 01-28-2008   #21
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Charly, one reason sometimes cited for stand development is that when there is less agitation the developer in contact with the highlights becomes exhausted while it continues to work on shadow detail. So you could get better shadow detail without blown highlights. Another good reason to try it is it's fun to experiment and see the results.
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Old 01-28-2008   #22
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Supposedly, with stand development the highlight areas of a negative exhaust the developer and then the highlights cease to develop further. In normal development these highlight areas are lucky enough, though agitation, to get fresh developer and then they can continue to develop. Conversely, the shadows on the negative which need less developer to develop are allowed to continue developing while standing. If it works or exists, the highlights are controlled which would not occur in normal agitation development, and the shadows are allowed to develop to their fullest.

Now, Diafine which is a compensating developer is slightly different. The developer is designed to control highlights and encourage shadows to develop fully.

Stand development isn't really for 'pushing' film, it is for increasing shadow detail while controlling highlights. But as you can see, you can use it to push and get daytime pictures.
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Old 01-28-2008   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter
I'm not sure I understand the need to take a picture of a horse in broad daylight with TriX at 3200 E.I. especially considering the concomitant decrease in tonal values and the increase in grain, but I'm with sitemistic on testing for true E.I. If le vrai is having trouble with blown out highlights the problem would probably be over developing rather than metering. By reducing exposure by three stops (E.I. 3200), it would be hard to over expose the highlights. Rodinal has the reputation of being a 'compensating like developer' so highlights should be easy to control by reducing the 'stand development' time.

Here is a woman that does stand development with Rodinal also using TriX (and other films). She is not pushing but she sure gets great results:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yolise/350780526/
I didn't always shoot in broad daylight, most of them were shot @ 1/125 f1.7

as I said it was an experiment and I want to use this technic at night in town
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Old 01-28-2008   #24
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Good, le vrai, post some of them.
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Old 01-28-2008   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter
Good, le vrai, post some of them.
I shot this roll in countryside this weekend, I made 3 shot in town , will post them quickly but they are not, to the "artistic " point of view interesting
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Old 01-28-2008   #26
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The last one : a bit before night : at 400 iso it would be 1/30 @ f2, i think I shot @ f2.8 or f3.5 1/60 or 1/125 probably


I hope I will soon have a full roll of cityscpae by night
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Old 01-28-2008   #27
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The last one shows what your process can do. Don't worry about the 'artistic' quality. We have all experimented. Why did you decide to shot the last one at 400? I really like that one (technically).
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Old 01-28-2008   #28
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sitemistic, maybe you don't have to meter for Rodinal stand development. le vrai exposed the last image at 400. Maybe with Rodinal at 1+100 or 1+200 you just use what you camera is set at or guess, pour in the Rodinal, possibly don't worry too much about temp. Develop for an hour or two or when you finish the pizza, and agitate just enough to not get bromide treaks.
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Old 01-28-2008   #29
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charjohncarter - Isn't le vrai saying that he did not expose it at 400 asa, that in fact it was under exposed by at least 2 stops, and maybe by as much as 4 stops? (thus 1600-6400). Maybe I am reading this wrong:

"The last one : a bit before night : at 400 iso it would be 1/30 @ f2, i think I shot @ f2.8 or f3.5 1/60 or 1/125 probably"
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Old 01-28-2008   #30
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Le vrai has posted some quality photos with helpful technical information. Just the type of thing that makes this site valuable. So I say "thank you" to him.
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Old 01-28-2008   #31
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wde60- I definitely agree. Between this thread and the Double X / Adox thread, those two have contributed more great information than I've seen on this forum in the last several months.

Cheer to Le vrai!
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Old 01-28-2008   #32
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dpetrzelka, you are right, I read it too fast. Thanks for the correction. So he shot it at 1600.

I, also, congratulate le vrai. We need more of this. Thanks le vrai.
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Old 01-28-2008   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter
The last one shows what your process can do. Don't worry about the 'artistic' quality. We have all experimented. Why did you decide to shot the last one at 400? I really like that one (technically).
I didn't shot at 400 but 3200, but I know what speed and aperture would be at this time If I were at 400
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Old 01-28-2008   #34
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Sitemistic

You're right - the true EI one gets in stand development won't actually be 12,800. But the point of pushing isn't to work at the true film speed. It's to shoot at a speed that let's you get the shot, then develop to get a usable print. Usually, this means bringing up the midtones at the expense of highlights, and a complete loss of shadow detail due to underexposure.

Compensation can combat this and produce more usuable negs. But I don't think anyone is claiming they are actually shooting at a true ISo 12,800. Certainly, I am not. I am saying that I've shot in situations where the light is really low (well off the meter on my canonet) and compensation via stand development and reduced agitation has helped save my negatives and made them usable. That's all I meant.

And one point is very impotant - 3 hours is almost certainly too long. I did that because I forgot about them for the last hour, and I was watching a 2 hour movie before that :-). About 1.5 hours is the longest one would need to go.

We all know from H&D curves that a certain amount of photonic energy (light) needs to hit the silver on film X to produce any reaction at all with the developer. A speed decreasing developer like Rodinal needs even more there than, say, Microphen to get that reaction. That's why Rodinal usually produces a longer toe.

But, if ISO tests is what you want, then I'll go do them. I'll shoot a roll of TXT with a medium tone subject (don't have a card, so probably a towel) at a whole bunch of EI's and then do a stand dev test. I'll see what I get. Perhaps I'll try a couple of different films.

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Old 01-28-2008   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter
sitemistic, maybe you don't have to meter for Rodinal stand development. le vrai exposed the last image at 400. Maybe with Rodinal at 1+100 or 1+200 you just use what you camera is set at or guess, pour in the Rodinal, possibly don't worry too much about temp. Develop for an hour or two or when you finish the pizza, and agitate just enough to not get bromide treaks.
I exposed at 3200 the last one but give you the equivalent couple speed aperture at 400 I use with such a light for I can't rememberthe aperture I used exposingat 3200


And when you push you NEED to METER correctly, I don't use to burn white and have undetailled shadows with trix at 400 sos, "metering" with my eyes , while at 3200, Even if you meter well at 3200 you have burned white sometimes for the film lattitude is not as wide as for a 400 iso exposed film
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Old 01-28-2008   #36
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I e just noticed I scanned at 3200 dpi but in jpg and not Tiff as I use if it change anything concerning burned white I will tell you
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Old 01-28-2008   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wde60
Le vrai has posted some quality photos with helpful technical information. Just the type of thing that makes this site valuable. So I say "thank you" to him.
You're welcome



I had a lot of fun trying this, I will go higher in sensibility untill it doesn't work
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Old 01-28-2008   #38
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Film latitude doesn't really change when you push film. Rather, you increase contrast by the combination of underexposure and overdevelopment. By definition, you sacrifice your highlights, usually blowing them out, in order to get usable midtones.
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Old 01-28-2008   #39
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voilą, I have some more pictures, I rescanned for I forgot last ime to switch it back to "tiff"











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Old 01-28-2008   #40
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very good, le vrai. thank you for sharing the results.
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