Nikkor-N 5cm f1.1 Question

[Hacker]

It the LTM version rare? More so than the Nikkor-S mount? What is the current price difference between the two?

Thanks in advance.

Stephen

[Mackinaw]

I'm sure one of the Nikon experts will chime in later, but according to Rotoloni (earlier book), Nikon made about 200 - 300 50/1.1 of the first version (internal mount) in LTM. This is out of a total version 1 production of 1,500 lenses. I won't even guess as to its worth.

Jim B.

[Brian Sweeney]

I'm going to guess that a brand new Noctilux is cheaper than find a Nikkor-N 5cm F1.1 in LTM. The external mount Nikon lenses cost about the same as a Noctilux.

The 50/0.95 is much less expensive. It is about twice as big as the Nikkor. Kiu and I had a get together. The S2 with the 5cm F1.1 is about 1/2 the weiggt of the Canon 7 with the 50/0.95. The Nikon is 9 elements in 7 groups, the Canon is 7 elements in 5 groups. Canon used a newer Glass in there lenses, allowing less elements. That means extra transmission of light.

If you have an extra $5,000 or more and want a vintage lens vs a Noctilux for a Leica camera, it is a very special lens. I settled for the Canon. It's cost was under 5% of the other lenses at that speed.

[Hacker]

Thanks for thr reply. There was a first production run, so I assume that there were subsequent runs. What were the production numbers then?

Were the latter mounts and runs different also?

Stephen

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Hacker

Thanks for thr reply. There was a first production run, so I assume that there were subsequent runs. What were the production numbers then?

Again, from Rotoloni, version 2 of this lens was the "exterior" mount type with about 1,547 being made, all in the Nikon mount. Apparently, the LTM versions of the Nikkor 50/1.1 were all of the internal mount design.

Jim B.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Apparently, the LTM versions of the Nikkor 50/1.1 were all of the internal mount design.

How are the designs different?

Philipp

[NIKON KIU]

Only barrel design is different, the optics are the same.
According to Factory recoreds, provided by Bob Rotoloni in his latest book, only 211 lenses were produced in Screw-mount. a 1 to 10 ratio compared to the Nikon S mount.
Rare? You bet your Leica it is!! Considering they were produced 50 years ago!!!

The serial number for the internal mount which includes the screw mounts starts from 119601 and goes up to 1211xx

Kiu

[CameraQuest]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

The LTM version in theory 200 or so sold. The lens was sold with a special rear cap that held the finder, required because the lens would block the Leica finder (remember this lens pre-dated the Leica M).

$5000 would be as good an estimate as anyone could make, they are so seldom for sale.

The LTM 1.1's are rarer than the Nikon RF 1.1's, but usually sell for less due to lower demand and less collector interest. Nikon collectors usually want Nikon mount lenses (not Leica), while Leica collectors usually want Leica lenses (not Nikon).

For 1.1's In the same condition, my experience is about 20% less value in LTM than NRF mount.

Stephen

[dexdog]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

It has always seemed odd to me that Leica did not choose to make the M mount also an internal screw mount.

I guess the cynical answer would be that leica could sell a whole lot of new lenses to match the new bodies.

That would be a pretty cool, though

[CameraQuest]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

I think Stephen is right, unless the lens is complete with the 50 finder. If the finder is present, then the lens will go off the charts. Very few seem to have the finder.

ah yes, the elusive black 50mm Nikon viewfinder, made exclusively for the 50/1.1 LTM lens.

it can command prices EQUAL to the 50/1.1 LTM lens.

Stephen

[Vickko]

I don't remember seeing an LTM Nikkor 50/1.1 in a while.

There was a Zunow 50/1.1 sold a month or so ago, close to $5K, out of Canada!

I'd love to find either, to round out my collection.

Vick

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by CameraQuest

The LTM 1.1's are rarer than the Nikon RF 1.1's, but usually sell for less due to lower demand and less collector interest. Nikon collectors usually want Nikon mount lenses (not Leica), while Leica collectors usually want Leica lenses (not Nikon).

For 1.1's In the same condition, my experience is about 20% less value in LTM than NRF mount.

Stephen

Thanks. I'm seeing one for about US$10k for the LTM mount in Ex++ condition. I have not seen any that is going for $5k, though the Zunows are priced at this level.

[Brian Sweeney]

That's because they saw your Avatar and know that at least one person wants to buy it.

QUICK! Put up a picture of a Canon 50/1.2!

Has anyone measured the T-Stop of the Nikkor 5cm F1.1? With 9 elements in 7 groups, single-coated, it's going to lose more than the 7 element in 5 group lenses.

[CameraQuest]

Originally Posted by Hacker

Thanks. I'm seeing one for about US$10k for the LTM mount in Ex++ condition. I have not seen any that is going for $5k, though the Zunows are priced at this level.

sellers can ask anything they like for their wares
no one in their right mind will spend anywhere near 10K for a 50/1.1 in Leica mount.

Stephen

[BillBingham2]

Perhaps if they threw in a M8 as a rear lens cap?

B2 (;->

[Al Kaplan]

It would be nice if somebody (Raid? Are you reading this?) would do some tests of various lenses to determine their T-stop, the amount of light actually transmitted as opposed to just the relative aperture. Pro motion picture lenses are usually T-stopped so the Canon 50/.095 lens specs are easily available.

[larmarv916]

Ok...lets get down to brass tacks. Prices on Nikon RF lenses and cameras are back on a strong upward sprial. In November of 2007 our friends at WestLicht Auctions in Austria held another strongly successful.

all we need do is look at the actual hammer prices for the winning bids.

Zunow 50 F1.1 lens in near mint condition sold for 4,080 Euros + buyers premium about 20% If we ball park that in a out the door cost you looking at for about 5000 Euros and at the current exchange rates that is in the $7500 USD zone.

What is difficult to understand is that the world demand for Nikon RF lenses and rare bodies is going to keep going higher. Key word is here is"world" So now our friends at West Licht are the major player in collectable camera auctions. Not Ebay or even Christies Auction House.

Even though the last West Licht auction was held live on Ebay the real bidders were sitting in Vienna bidding in person. Real and very serous collectors. some items were sold via Ebay but not the really high priced items.

Currently Mr. Coeln has a M39 Nikon 50 F1.1 lens and wants 7600+ Euros who knows but I doubt he will not get close to what he wants. As the dollar gets softer all the prices on collectable Nikon RF items will go higher if for no other reason than the basic exchange rates. Sad but True.

[NIKON KIU]

Originally Posted by CameraQuest

The LTM 1.1's are rarer than the Nikon RF 1.1's, but usually sell for less due to lower demand and less collector interest. Nikon collectors usually want Nikon mount lenses (not Leica), while Leica collectors usually want Leica lenses (not Nikon).

For 1.1's In the same condition, my experience is about 20% less value in LTM than NRF mount.

Stephen

Hmmmm,
Interesting opinion you have there, considering the last one that sold went for over $11300
Westicht auction May 16th 2007
There was a nice external mount sold in the same Auction for $3900

There has been 3 other lenses sold since then, All in Nikon mount, an external mount with hood and cases for $9000 in Christies last auction, an internal mount for under $2500 Sold By Tamarkin in his only auction of 2007, and the last but least, was an external with marks to the front, sold for $1900
Again Westlicht, November of 2007

Regards,

Kiu

[NIKON KIU]

Originally Posted by BillBingham2

Perhaps if they threw in a M8 as a rear lens cap?

B2 (;->

Will you need an adapter?

Kiu

[LeicaTom]

Just like the Nikkor f1.5 50mm in LTM , this is another lens that will NEVER see any usage

I think the shallow DOF would be perfect for shooting outdoor Retro lingerie/stockings and art nudes ala
Bettie Page and also moody artistic nudes (on location) stuff *in High Contrasty Blk & Wht films* - it`s really too bad that I might not get a crack at shooting with either one - the f1.1 or the f1.5.......... even if I had extensive funding for my work, or a limitless account, I wouldn`t pay more than $2,000 for either one, it`s just like the Leitz Noctilux Mythos it`s really more hype than it is worth, glass that`s been driven up by collectiors values, not by what it really can do - the Faster Canon lenses f0.95/f1.2 and f1.4 of the early 1960`s do an excellent artistic job, taking pictures and I hope to be pushing all three of these someday between a Leica M6 and a Canon 7s and show off more work that these Faster lenses really can do

It`s really a shame that more people with rarer gear don`t use it for what it was intended to be used for in the first place and that 100% of it all is just paperweights at the bottom of some safety deposit box

Tom

[Hacker]

From what you guys have posted, I do not see a pattern in the way prices are tagged to the lenses, so I guess is that anything goes. Oh well, what intrigued me is thie article:

http://akiroom.com/redbook-e/kenkyuk...kai200409.html

[Brian Sweeney]

> 3. Canon 50mm f/1.2 - f/1.22 (10 surfaces)

This one looks like a typo, unless the lens is actually closer to F1.15 or so. That is a "possibility". Reading the article, I'm not sure if these values were measured or just computed using the formula for number of surfaces whether it was uncoated/single-coated/multi-coated. It's a "rough estimate", but does not account for actual measured F-stop vs marked F-stop, or the types of glass used.

The multicoated SLR Nikkor 55mm f1.2 is T1.25 according to Pop Photo's 1976 test. It is 7 elements in 5 groups. Most single-coated 50"ish" lenses were T1.3 to T1.35. The 50mm F1.2 Noctilux is T1.30. Some manufacturers F1.2 lenses measured out a bit faster than F1.2 to compensate for transmission.

[Brian Sweeney]

I take my $12,400 1.6MPixel camera out every spring for the new foliage! It also got a lot of use over the past 16 years.

[larmarv916]

Well at the end of the day......no matter what lens or camera you use, if is the final print that is all that matters. When the world of glorified camera buffs,,,ie non shooting throphy collectos begins trying to impress each other. You end up with the same type of people who are paying insane prices for Bugatti's , Cuda's and modern art. That is the way of the world. I wish they would stick to buying up all the Limited Editon Leica's , made from societies version of "fools gold".

Sometimes the "grass is greener" grips everyone and after a couple of months try to shoot everything at F/1 suddenly gets realy boring. Then you sell off that white elephant and go back to that ordinary old F2 normal lens and the photos seem somehow more interesting and more fun to create. But as we all face the digital frenzy of anti-film consumerism...we now see our film as black magic by the public. Quaint but lacking in techno coolness. So Sad.

Do I love all that strange and weird stuff that was once made in a marketing technology war at the peak of the true mechanical analog age. You bet, but if I can not make something better with it then I sell it and move on.

[Brian Sweeney]

Are you kidding- MY Digital camera is SO ADVANCED that I can load it with 35mm film. And if I want color pictures with it, I have to.