Summicron front element recoated by Arax, looks good.

phototone · 04-01-2005

I just received back the front element from a Summicron 50mm f2 lens, that I sent Gevorg at Arax Photo in the Ukraine, for polishing and recoating.

I decided to try Gevorg, because I have ordered quite a few pieces of Kiev medium format equipment and lenses from him and have received excellent service, and he does offer recoating of lenses.

The only alternative was here in the USA, and it was so much higher, that I thought it was worth the risk. I think I remember the price as being over $250, for here in the USA.

He requested that I just send the element, not the whole lens, and it was easy to remove, as I have a lens spanner wrench to remove the front retaining ring, and I also have one of those little suction bulbs to lift the cell out. I wrapped it in cotton, and put it in an old Kodak screw-apart filter box, and wrapped that in bubble wrap and then put the whole thing in a much larger box.

Oh, I know you are wondering what the cost was. Polish and recoat front element, $30 + $8 shipping back to me.

I will test the lens out today, and give feedback on its performance. This lens had so many abraisions on the front coating that it looked like the moon, but it was obvious that they were coating scratches, and not deep (not into the glass). It now looks new!

Gene McCluney (Phototone)

rover · 04-01-2005

Wow, I will enjoy seeing some results from the "new" lens.

unsharp · 04-01-2005

Just now prices for M-Rokkors went up 50%

Anders

taffer · 04-01-2005

Are M-Rokkors specially prone to coating problems / cleaning marks ?

Btw Gene, thanks for sharing that, it the results come out nice, it's a great price for recoating and I guess he'll have more customers soon...

denishr · 04-01-2005

Gene, MANY THANKS FOR THIS INFO!
I've got the same problem with my collapsible Summicron 50/2. I'm in Croatia, so USA is too expensive - another guy in UK wanted about GBP 90 plus shipping - still a bit too high.

Please, shoot some test photos, and let us know about the results. Watch for the flare - does it flare less than before? Crispness, clarity? Bokeh? Any info about results will be appreciated!

As soon as you can confirm that it's better than before, mine will be mailed to Ukraine!!!

Thanks,

Denis

phototone · 04-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by denishr

Gene, MANY THANKS FOR THIS INFO!
I've got the same problem with my collapsible Summicron 50/2. I'm in Croatia, so USA is too expensive - another guy in UK wanted about GBP 90 plus shipping - still a bit too high.

Please, shoot some test photos, and let us know about the results. Watch for the flare - does it flare less than before? Crispness, clarity? Bokeh? Any info about results will be appreciated!

As soon as you can confirm that it's better than before, mine will be mailed to Ukraine!!!

Thanks,

Denis

Well, Dennis,
As far as I was concerned, the lens was unusable in its previous condition, so any improvement will be good. I don't see any way that it could be any thing but vastly improved.

I have a few more that I intend to send. It can take a while to have done. I think it took about a month not counting shipping.

It would say that probably the only type of lens elements that could be re-coated on an economical basis would be "air-spaced" ones. I really doubt that they could polish and re-coat a cemented pair, such as found on many Leica lenses. The cemented pairs would have to be separated, re-coated and then re-cemented together, which would increase the complexity vastly. (Cemented pairs...refers to two or more glass elements that are bonded together with Canada Balsam to form one optical block)

Gene

rover · 04-01-2005

The coatings of the 28/2.8 M Rokkor is notorious for coating problems. Minolta used to recoat them, but does not any more. The 40/2 and 90/4 did not have the same problem.

taffer · 04-01-2005

Ahh, I see, I remember reading something about 28s and was just curious as if there was a problem with more lenses as well. Thx.

unsharp · 04-02-2005

Looking for a M-Rokkor 40mm I came across the info that the 28mm aften had coating (or glue/sealer?) problem. But the M-Rokkor range (28, 40, 90) are very good value for the money I understand.

Anders

Doug · 04-02-2005

Yes, I'd heard of (incipient) separation of cemented pairs of elements in the 28 Rokkor. Don't know about coating.

denishr · 04-07-2005

Well, following Gene's experience above, I dismantled my Summicron with hazy coating and shipped it off to Ukraine...

We'll see.... Hopefully, the flare will be reduced. It's a collapsible 50/2 Summicron, and I really like it for its compact size and "character". But, it was pretty darn useless outdoors or anywhere alse with strong light sources in the frame...

Denis

RObert Budding · 04-08-2005

Well? How are the images from your recoated lense?

Robert

phototone · 04-08-2005

I don't have any images scanned yet...however since I got the front element back from Arax, and installed it...I have to say, looking at my negatives with a loupe, that my collapsable LTM 50mm f2 Summicron appears to be one of the sharpest lenses I have in LTM. I notice no tendency to flare easily.

The new coating is multicoating. This may actually improve the tendency towards flare, although this lens is not particularly flare prone anyway in comparison to others ..

The rest of my lens was in excellent shape, including the coating on the back element, and no internal hazing, although I did clean each element, just to make sure.

Total cost including postage both ways (from USA) was about $50 USD. This was just the front element sent. Postage would have been more, thus raising total price, if I had sent the whole lens. No need to send lens, usually it is just the front element that is scratched in the coating.

I just sent off two more. Another 50mm Summicron front element (this seems to be common with that lens...scratched coating)..and a 90 Elmar f4 front element.

As a side note....the 50mm Summicrons that I have, have been with me for many years, and have been set aside as unsatisfactory due to the severe coating abrasions on the front element. This is just like getting brand new lenses. It is very exciting.

Gene McCluney (Phototone)

Ed Schwartzreic · 04-11-2005

I usually post on the R-D1 forum here, but was reading this one with interest. I have an 8-element 35/2 Summicron which developed fungus on an inner element. John van Stelten removed the fungus but said the element was etched (? coating, ? glass) and he could do nothing about it. The lens is o/w Mint.

I had the following email contact with ARAX:

Hello Ed.

Responding to your e-mail of 09.04.2005.

ES> Q: I have an 8-element 35 Summicron which had fungus on an
ES> inner elemt. The fungus was removed, but the element is still
ES> etched (? coating versus the glass itself). Can you do anything
ES> with such a lens?

Yes, it should be polished, then multi-coated for $15 for surface or
$30 for one glass independent from the lens size. You should send the
glass only without any metallic parts.

Sincerely
Gevorg Vartanyan

This is more than just unscrewing a front element. I could ask DAG to take it apart, but does the whole thing sound reasonable?

Appreciate comments.

Ed

phototone · 04-11-2005

Yes, this sounds reasonable, however if you do not feel that you can dis-mantle your lens, perhaps you could have Gevorg or his technician do this for an additional fee. It would not hurt to ask.

Myself, I have had no problems taking the front elements off my lenses, etc.

Phototone

Ed Schwartzreic · 04-11-2005

Unfortunately, the affected surface(s) may be on cemented doublets. This is my latest exchange:

ES> What happens if the affected element(s) are part of a
ES> cemented pair? The 8-element Summicron is a symmetrical Gaussian
ES> design with 2 cemented pairs.

We can work with it, but the risk of braking is too high. If you agree
take the risk, we can do it. The price will increase only for $5 for
each cemented lens.

Then spoke to DAG who said that he would be happy to dismantlle the lens, and his thought is, even if the fungus is one one surface of a cemented pair, that surface could still be recoated.

Ed

phototone · 04-11-2005

My thinking is this. You have to determine the value of the lens in good condition. If the value of the lens will be exceeded by the cost of the repairs, then it may just pay you to try to acquire another identical lens in good shape. There are PLENTY of 50mm f2 Summicrons, 50mm Summitars, etc. You can get a good one for a fair price, as these were made in relatively large quantities for Leica lenses.

Example....one can have a 50mm f2 Summar front cemented pair dismantled, polished, coated recemented and assembled by a firm in England for several hundred dollars, but why?...when you could probably find one in good shape for $200 or less. A Summar is neither a very good lens, or rare. It has its qualities though, but razor sharpness is not one of them.

Now, consider that having Gevorg at Arax handle the work is going to cost you a fraction of this, and there are possibilities that heretofore didn't exist in economically "restoring" lenses that do not have a high enough value to have repaired otherwise.

I am sure Gevorg could dis-assemble the lens for an additional fee. After all, the technicians used by Gevorg are in the lens manufacturing business, and are trained in optical manufacture and assembly. I would guess, considering the economy there, that they relish "outside" "extra" work for ready cash, and will do the best job possible.

There are some very fine lenses coming new from Kiev these days for medium format cameras.

Phototone

Ed Schwartzreic · 04-13-2005

I've decided to send the whole lens to Gevorg, as suggested. He is quite willing to do this and see what reconditioning is feasible. Thanks for the help, and I'll reply about this as things develop.

This is not a 50/2 but a 35/2 and the fungus is on inner elements, not the easier-to-remove front elelmet of the various 50/2's.

Ed

Canon Junkie · 04-13-2005

This seems like very reasonable (if not downright cheap) cost for this. I am glad to see it as an option and will dig around for lenses I have long burried in the back of my closet as worthless.

04-15-2005

Hi Gene,
I have just joined this Fprum today. Could you please post the mailing address for Gevorg. Also, if I am not an experienced camera repair person, would it better if I asked one to remove the lens element for me? Thanks.

Raid Amin

Quote:

Originally Posted by phototone

I just received back the front element from a Summicron 50mm f2 lens, that I sent Gevorg at Arax Photo in the Ukraine, for polishing and recoating.

I decided to try Gevorg, because I have ordered quite a few pieces of Kiev medium format equipment and lenses from him and have received excellent service, and he does offer recoating of lenses.

The only alternative was here in the USA, and it was so much higher, that I thought it was worth the risk. I think I remember the price as being over $250, for here in the USA.

He requested that I just send the element, not the whole lens, and it was easy to remove, as I have a lens spanner wrench to remove the front retaining ring, and I also have one of those little suction bulbs to lift the cell out. I wrapped it in cotton, and put it in an old Kodak screw-apart filter box, and wrapped that in bubble wrap and then put the whole thing in a much larger box.

Oh, I know you are wondering what the cost was. Polish and recoat front element, $30 + $8 shipping back to me.

I will test the lens out today, and give feedback on its performance. This lens had so many abraisions on the front coating that it looked like the moon, but it was obvious that they were coating scratches, and not deep (not into the glass). It now looks new!

Gene McCluney (Phototone)

phototone · 04-15-2005

Go to the website

http://www.araxfoto.com/

and contact him through that.

He has specific instructions for sending repair items to avoid any customs charges.
He will detail this to you in an email.

Gene

denishr · 05-24-2005

Well, after about 6 weeks, I got the front element of my Summicron back. It looks very nice - like new... Actually, better than new, since it now has a better coating (more durable) than the original.

I took a few quick snaps on Efke 100, souped it in Rodinal, and the results are satisfactory. I tried several shots with strong backlight, and I'm pleased to say that in this regard the lens is much better now. I'll be shooting more with this lens, and will definitely have a better opinion whether anything has gone "wrong" with it during this procedure, but the first results look quite OK. In short, it was practically useless outdoors in bright light, whereas now I can't see any flaring and serious reduction of contrast...

Attached are two shots - first is one of the worst flare examples with this lens prior to recoating, and the second is my son, taken today with newly recoated front element, in roughly similar situation (strong backlight). Proof is in the pudding

Denis

rover · 05-24-2005

#2 is very nice indeed.

back alley · 05-24-2005

big difference, looks good.

joe

Doug · 05-24-2005

So, hmmm, wondering if it was worth the trouble?