Convince me the K100D Super is not worth it?

[ampguy]

I can't justify a K10D at $200 more, but the K100D super 6MP, shake red., body is down to about USD $360 after rebate. I know from past use of an *ist DL, that unless they screwed something up badly, that the 6MP is enough for my needs.

I have a few K mount lenses to use, unless I get the dreaded pentax LBA, primarily a 35/1.9 Vivitar branded lens.

I see these going away soon (and rebate ending), and am not sure how fast the K10D's will drop out?

So someone tell me the K100D Super is not worth it, so I can justify the wait for the K10D or some other 10MP throw away to come down a bit??

[Matthew Allen]

I'm sure it IS worth it, go for it. I'm still a DL user but by all account the K100D is an excellent camera that does a few things better and also has the proven AS.

You're right about 6MP too. The K100D has better low-light performance than the K10D and for all we know the next model may be even worse in this respect.

Matthew

[aizan]

it's not worth it, cuz you can get a k10d for only 200 bucks more.

[dgray]

January 24th? is the date that Pentax will supposedly announce the K20d and K200d. There are rumours all over the net about what they will include, and of course we don't really know. What we DO know, though, is that the K100D will become even less expensive when it is "outdated." It is also possible that at that time the "old" K10d could fall enough to be in your current price range. If you shop around and use the rebate you can get a K10d for $519 right now. If you're trying to stay small and keep with the rangefinder type experience with a small Pentax prime, then the K100/200 will remain your best bet as the K10 is larger.

[Doug]

I think we're now entering the trailing edge of the K10D and K100D market as current products, where pricing is attractive. But it can only go down, I think, as vendors clear the shelves as the K20D and K200D are introduced (Spring? Earlier?). If you will be happy with the K100D Super for the forseeable future, then it's a good buy. I bought my K100D a bit too early, perhaps, missing the Super, but it'll still serve me well.

[ampguy]

Thanks all, this is great info.

The thing is that the K100D Super has been on the old side of the product lineup for sometime, availability is relatively low, and I expect the K10D to get low in the coming months, but am not sure how much more the price will drop.

Note that certain cameras are nuggets, and the replacements just aren't the same, like the old Fuji F30, and F31fd are now hard to get and the replacements are crap.

The K100D Super is only available at a couple of retailers online and I expect the K10D to be phased out soon as well as the newer models get more coverage.

Also, I really like the K100D Super's ability to use the 4AA cells as I'm hooked on the Sanyo Enerloop series of rechargeable NiMHs, and hate the idea of forking over $40 for another extra (but necessary) proprietary battery.

[ampguy]

Can you elaborate more on the K100D Super having better low light perf. than the K10D? This might make me jump right away for it, I'd be very pleased if it was just as good as my old DL's performance.

I shoot JPG only. I like to get the white balance right the first time and shoot green, saving server cpu cycles, and saving the planet for another day.

Originally Posted by Matthew Allen

I'm sure it IS worth it, go for it. I'm still a DL user but by all account the K100D is an excellent camera that does a few things better and also has the proven AS.

You're right about 6MP too. The K100D has better low-light performance than the K10D and for all we know the next model may be even worse in this respect.

Matthew

[Al Patterson]

Originally Posted by ampguy

Thanks all, this is great info.

The thing is that the K100D Super has been on the old side of the product lineup for sometime, availability is relatively low, and I expect the K10D to get low in the coming months, but am not sure how much more the price will drop.

Note that certain cameras are nuggets, and the replacements just aren't the same, like the old Fuji F30, and F31fd are now hard to get and the replacements are crap.

The K100D Super is only available at a couple of retailers online and I expect the K10D to be phased out soon as well as the newer models get more coverage.

Also, I really like the K100D Super's ability to use the 4AA cells as I'm hooked on the Sanyo Enerloop series of rechargeable NiMHs, and hate the idea of forking over $40 for another extra (but necessary) proprietary battery.

If the K100D Super fits your price range and you think the image quality is acceptable, buy it. If I needed a DSLR this month, I'd probably buy the K10D, but since I probably won't buy one this year, I'll see what's available when I'm in the market.

[akptc]

I have the K10D and just ordered the K100D Super ($370) to have a body with 3200 ISO 'cause the K10D's 1600 ISO just isn't enough for my kid's evening baseball games. Plus, it's smaller and easier to carry than it's bigger brother. I think it's worth its price.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by ampguy

... Also, I really like the K100D Super's ability to use the 4AA cells as I'm hooked on the Sanyo Enerloop series of rechargeable NiMHs, and hate the idea of forking over $40 for another extra (but necessary) proprietary battery.

The K10D battery is actually interchangable with the Minolta NP-400, and available from about $15. Cheaper than a set of Enerloops, and lasts longer too. I'll often get a few days shooting out of one battery with the K10D.

eg http://www.bestbatt.com/SearchResult...nsive_Search=Y

The K10D has superior ergonomics and the ability to customise the control setup to your liking, and the slightly bigger body balances better with larger lenses. While 6MP is plenty for 8x10s, 10MP will give you the extra pixels that allow you to crop, if the capture wasn't quite what is needed.

[charjohncarter]

I think the K100D has the same sensor as the DL. This is handheld w/o SR using the DL.

[erikhaugsby]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

The K10D battery is actually interchangable with the Minolta NP-400, and available from about $15. Cheaper than a set of Enerloops, and lasts longer too. I'll often get a few days shooting out of one battery with the K10D.

eg http://www.bestbatt.com/SearchResult...nsive_Search=Y

Are those OEM batteries they sell, or just other brands' batteries?

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by erikhaugsby

Are those OEM batteries they sell, or just other brands' batteries?

Cheap copies, but in actual use, so far, apparently no worse than the genuine item.

[ampguy]

Thanks Chris, great link for batteries if I do go the K10D route. More pixels on the same size sensor doesn't always mean better big size pritns, but that's a whole 'nother thread somewhere.

Yes, the DL used the same sensor as I think the Nikon D70, and the firmware for low light at ISO 3200, was great, just the right amount of sharpening/NR (for my tastes in JPG output).

I get my Enerloops for $20 for 8AAs, and 8AAAs, so not sure even a $15 battery is less than 4AA's, also when traveling, I have a better chance to find AAs than a proprietary battery.

Great car photo! I miss my DL, I'm just hoping a K100D Super or K10D didn't get worse, as newer models often do in the more features/megapixes scam.

[radiocemetery]

Alfa Romeo Bertone B.A.T.

[ampguy]

Well I realize many folks don't like dpreviews, but re-reading the K10d review doesn't impress me at all with the K10D - lower dynamic range than the D80 and Canon dslr, higher noise than all but the Sony Alpha 100, possibly both as results of cramming too many pixels on an APS sized sensor.

And the final killer for me is no ISO 3200. It's K100D Super, or waiting for new models or going with another brand.

[dgray]

It is often pointed out that the major flaw with the dpreview article is the exclusive testing of the camera's jpeg output only. To make judgments about sharpness, noise, and dynamic range based on jpegs is more about software processor choices than the inherent abilities of the camera. RAW files are outstanding (which the article admits but buries in a little disclaimer), and even if the jpegs are pronounced inferior, they are still very nice. It is dpreview's job to split hairs.

[ChrisN]

Enerloops retail at AUD$25 (about US$21.50) for a 4-pack. Another example of the size of the US market reducing cost to the consumer. I wonder what they sell for in Europe?

[ampguy]

good point, but for me, I'm a jpg shooter only.

Originally Posted by dgray

It is often pointed out that the major flaw with the dpreview article is the exclusive testing of the camera's jpeg output only. To make judgments about sharpness, noise, and dynamic range based on jpegs is more about software processor choices than the inherent abilities of the camera. RAW files are outstanding (which the article admits but buries in a little disclaimer), and even if the jpegs are pronounced inferior, they are still very nice. It is dpreview's job to split hairs.

[wintoid]

I had a K10D for a while but didn't get on with it very well, so have gone back to Canon. I love the Pentax colours but struggled with the AF.

I seem to recall that the K10D supposedly had problems metering accurately with manual focus pre-A series lenses, whereas the K100D was meant to be fine. Please google to validate my statement. It might help you to pare it back

[vdonovan]

Wait until after Christmas? I bet prices will drop another $20 bucks. Then pop for it.

[zuikologist]

I'd go with the K100D if super-size prints are not required. Lighter, smaller, meters well with the older lenses, possibly better high ISO (though accurate exposure seems to bring out superb JPEGs in the K10D - see pnet discussions). BUT, vf is pentamirror not pnetaprism - though still much better than anything in its price range and build quality not up to the K10D, but again probably better than the Canon and Nikon offerings.

The K10D is weather sealed, semi-pro, better system (battery grip, vf screens etc).

SR is very good on both cameras.

You pays your money and takes your choice. BTW Nice to see a Pentax being considered seriously.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by ampguy

Note that certain cameras are nuggets, and the replacements just aren't the same, like the old Fuji F30, and F31fd are now hard to get and the replacements are crap.

The F50 is actually a pretty decent camera in itself. You get lots more pixels in good light, which can be useful, and the same performance as the old one in bad light if you can live with downscaling your pictures to the pixel count of the F30. For that, however, the camera is smaller, has an image stabilizer and has an SD slot; if you've ever tried getting an xD card in Tashkent you'd know how much this is worth. The only real disadvantage is battery life; however a second battery costs $5 or less and you should never take only one battery anyway. Plus, the fact that the F30 series is overhyped means that you can actually get some pretty decent deals on the F50.

Philipp

[Matthew Allen]

Originally Posted by ampguy

Can you elaborate more on the K100D Super having better low light perf. than the K10D? This might make me jump right away for it, I'd be very pleased if it was just as good as my old DL's performance.

I shoot JPG only. I like to get the white balance right the first time and shoot green, saving server cpu cycles, and saving the planet for another day.

I think this has sort of been said already but anyway, the K100D has larger photosites on its sensor (fewer per unit area) and hence has a better signal to noise ratio than the K10D, as do all the 6MP Pentax DSLRs. It's possible that the AF on the K10D may be better (not sure, no experience) but in terms of noise any of the 6MP models will win.

When it comes to white balance I think Pentax is fairly typical, though they may be more biased to oranges and reds. You'll find that in artificial lighting (especially tungsten), the results are too red and a custom WB is better.

Matthew

[Mudman]

I love my pentax K10d, but the meter is very finicky, but once I got used to it, I've been getting great shots. I handled a k100, and the smaller view finder, lack of a second control dial and verticle grip knocked it to me.