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Optics Theory - This forum is aimed towards the TECHNICAL side of photographic OPTICS THEORY. There will be some overlap by camera/manufacturer, but this forum is for the heavy duty tech discussions. This is NOT the place to discuss a specific lens or lens line, do that in the appropriate forum. This is the forum to discuss optics or lenses in general, to learn about the tech behind the lenses and images. IF you have a question about a specific lens, post it in the forum about that type of camera, NOT HERE.

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Old 01-08-2008   #251
etrigan63
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Here's one with my newly acquired Zeiss Planar 50mm f/2 - wide open
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Old 01-08-2008   #252
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M3 with M-rokkor 40/2 wide open

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Old 01-09-2008   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
M3 with M-rokkor 40/2 wide open
Good shot!!
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Old 01-10-2008   #254
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I just went through this thread from top to bottom, all at once, and I've decided a few things:

Pentax 50/1.4's really are some of the greatest lenses ever made - in every way.

I wish I still had my Canon LTM 50/1.5 and my Pentacon 6 mount CZJ 180/2.8 Sonnar.

And though some lenses do have inherently better or worse bokeh, they're all capable of producing either great bokeh or terrible bokeh, given the right occasion.
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Old 01-10-2008   #255
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This thread is so great, sorry I don't have any scans to contribute. I've got a wish llist though. I think we're missing representation from Rollei 40/2.8 HFT, anything Contax G, and how about an SMC 85/1.8 just for me!
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Old 01-13-2008   #256
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Mamiya C/C2 hybrid and Mamiya Sekor 105/3.5. I believe it's the first of its kind in this thread

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Old 01-14-2008   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
Mamiya C/C2 hybrid and Mamiya Sekor 105/3.5.
Mmm, Heliar creamy bokeh... Yummy!

Cheers!

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Old 01-18-2008   #258
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Mamiyaflex , Mamiya Sekor 105/3.5 , Neopan 400 in DD-X, 7 mins


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Day at the Zoo
Old 01-18-2008   #259
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Day at the Zoo

Recent day at the Zoo with my Kids!

All on Kodak 200

First two are with Minolta MD 70-210 zoom. (if it's foreground is it Bokeh?)









Third one is Minolta MD 135 (and through glass, with back ground a netting).

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Old 01-19-2008   #260
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I really like the bokeh bubbles on this one:


M8/Jupiter-8
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Old 01-20-2008   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fefe
I really like the bokeh bubbles on this one:
Bubbles? Are you talking about bubbles?



Cheers!

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Old 01-21-2008   #262
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OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Bubbles bubbling all over !

I love it.
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Old 01-21-2008   #263
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amazing pictures!
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Old 01-21-2008   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbazz
Bubbles? Are you talking about bubbles?
Abbazz, that is awesome! Mirror lens?
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Old 01-21-2008   #265
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Thanks to all for the kind comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Mirror lens?
Yes, it was a mirror lens, and sorry for the off-topic. It was taken with a Tamron 350/5.6 on a Pentax K10d.

Cheers!

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tech pan bokeh
Old 01-21-2008   #266
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tech pan bokeh

with the 50mm Heliar f/2:

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File Type: jpg chaos.jpg (182.8 KB, 737 views)
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Old 01-21-2008   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeeRF
with the 50mm Heliar f/2
The Mamiya 105/3.5 and now the Voigländer 50/2. I just love these Heliar shots! Keep them coming

Cheers!

Abbazz
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Last edited by Abbazz : 01-21-2008 at 22:41.
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Old 01-22-2008   #268
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Thank you Abbazz. This thread is fantastic. Looking for more bokeh shots in the archive..
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Old 01-24-2008   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbazz
Some miscellaneous pics taken during the last few days with the Canon 50/0.95 mounted on a Bessa-R3M:


Abbazz, I enjoyed your 50/0.95 images. Anyone know of any other lenses for 35mm photography, other than the Noctilux 50/1 and Canon 50/0.95 that produce the kind of "swirly bokeh" seen in the above image? I really like the effect.
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Old 01-24-2008   #270
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What causes swirly bokeh? This was one of the questions I hoped this thread would address. So far I would have to say that it does not seem to be an intrinsic property of any one lens design. Maybe older lenses tend to show it more than current designs? But I have yet to see a swirly image made with a medium or large format lens and most of them are older, and older designs.

Speculating here but it seems that the image composition is the largest factor in showing the swirly effect. Compose a shot with a random distribution of closely spaced highlights in the OOF, and have that be the center of the image with the in-focus areas pushed to the corners, and presto - swirl. Other thoughts?
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Old 01-24-2008   #271
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Swirly lenses seem to concentrate light in the OOF into the edge of the circles of confusion nearest the center of the image. They also seem to distort the circle a little, into more of a hyperbola shape.
Could this be astigmatism showing up OOF only? I guess you could test by taking a swirly lens and making a picture with point sources in the foreground OOF. They would form radial lines instead...
Just a guess.
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Old 01-24-2008   #272
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When I Google "swirly bokeh," most of the examples are from large format lenses (supposedly the 3-element lenses are the most likely to get swirly) and the 50/1.0 Noctilux. Some more I just came across with swirly bokeh are the Classic Heliar 50/2, Helios 40-2 85/1.5, 50 Summitar, and the original Nokton.
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Old 01-25-2008   #273
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Thanks, Amin, for your kind comments regarding my pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amin_sabet
When I Google "swirly bokeh," most of the examples are from large format lenses (supposedly the 3-element lenses are the most likely to get swirly) and the 50/1.0 Noctilux. Some more I just came across with swirly bokeh are the Classic Heliar 50/2, Helios 40-2 85/1.5, 50 Summitar, and the original Nokton.
I agree with LF specialist Ole Tjugen in this post: swirly bokeh comes from astigmatism and vignetting. I would go a bit further in saying that it comes mainly from mechanical vignetting due to the rear part of the lens mount blocking some light rays around the edges of the frame, thus turning circles into "cat eyes" shapes. But, as you can see if you read the whole thread, this matter is subject to discussion.

I have some pictures exhibiting this swirly bokeh. Most were taken with large format or medium format lenses, some with the Bessa R3M equipped with the Canon 50/0.95 or the Heliar 50/2. They were all taken with fast lenses used wide open and focused close.

If you want to duplicate the effect, put your subject in the center of the frame in front of a "busy" background located not too far away from the main subject (like some twigs with leaves on them and light filtering through), because the swirly bokeh will not show if the background is completely out of focus. The best lenses are usually those with large glass elements inserted in long tubes, because they will exhibit the greatest amount of mechanical vignetting. You can also adapt a black cardboard tube at the rear of your lens (like a narrow lens hood, but attached behind the lens) to enhance vignetting.

This is my favorite "swirly bokeh" picture (linked from the awesome Kerik Kouklis' website, shot with an 18" LF Verito lens):



Cheers!

Abbazz
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Old 01-25-2008   #274
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That's a great shot! Here are some shirly shots by others which I enjoyed finding while looking for examples:

3 swirly shots by Tommy Oshima:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/281078121/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/445174821/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/246989204/

Gabriel M.A.:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielma/1862504810/

Moaan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moaan/2039843441/

Nomad on the road films (Not as swirly, but I like it):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pm_photo/524838305/

Tetsuya Miyoshi with some of that sweet Summitar swirl:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/d-chimpanzee/463127282/

My Zuiko OM 50/1.2 has a pretty large rear element, but no tube around it. I'm afraid to put cardboard there since the pesky mirror might not clear it. Ah well, I'll pick up a swirly lens at some point. Thanks for the explanation and tips!
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Old 01-25-2008   #275
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taken with 35 asph sum.
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