Smallest 6x6 Folder

whitecat · 11-11-2007

I have some pretty slim ones like a Hapo66E and a Nettar. What have you all found to be the smallest/slimest?

bsdunek · 11-11-2007

I have my Voightlander Baby Bessa with 75mm Schneider lens. It's pretty small for a 6X6, but others may be smaller.

oftheherd · 11-11-2007

I don't know how small the ones already mentioned are, but I think my Welta 6x6/645 is pretty small, but it doesn't have a rangefinder either.

kuzano · 11-11-2007

Voigtlander Perkeo ... best configuration if you can find it... Perkeo I with a Color Scopar and Synchro Compur shutter. (that was a "not often found" upgrade lens for the 1 model. Perkeo II normally had the Color Skopar/Synchro Compur to 1/500th. Camera closed 5" x 3.25" x 1.75". Very solid with rigid front standards, durable bellows, front cell focusing. (not rangefinder)
Balda Baldix with uncoupled rangefinder 6X6 with Enna Werk Munchen Ennagon, sharp and contrasty, front standard like a rock. Prontor SVS shutter to 1/300th. V X M synch, Film stop and double prevention. Very nice (surprising) results. 5.2" x 3.75" x 1.75"

The Perkeo I is ruby window all the way. The Perkeo II is ruby window to frame 1 and auto film count rest of the way (when it's working-very undependable mechanism). The Balda Baldix (and a Hapo Balda-Identical camera made for Hapo department stores in Europe) is ruby window to frame 1 and auto stop rest of the roll. The Balda mechanism is much more durable than the Perkeo II's and the Mamiya Automats I have owned.

My choices first would be the Perkeo 1/Color Skopar (not the Vaskar lens), and either of the Balda (Baldix or Hapo) variants the the ennagon lens.

jan normandale · 11-11-2007

The Perkeo is a small package I'll often toss one into a bag or jacket "just in case" I haven't had any issues with the film advance yet ... now I'm nervous !

David Goldfarb · 11-12-2007

Also a fan of the Perkeo II/Color-Skopar as a go-everywhere camera. I usually keep mine in my briefcase with a few spare rolls of Tri-X and use it with a shoe-mount rangefinder.

kuzano · 11-12-2007

Pardon me for that comment on the Perkeo II.... Not wanting to make anyone nervous. The mechanism in the Perkeo II is reliable if used properly. Meaning you know the sequence of steps for that little lever on the back and the proper routine for startup and advance.
2) that you treat the camera with care, and that it never ever takes a hit on the wind-on knob
3) that if you get stuck, that you are willing to sacrifice a roll of film in the camera rather than forcing the advance.
4) That you get a camera that has a fully functional, working film advance mechanism and proper instructions on the procedure for using it.

I presume those who own and make comments on Perkeo II's, by this time, know how to use the advance mechanism. The reason for never dropping them on the wind-on is that there are some reasonably complex timing mechanisms attached to the wind-on shaft just below the cover.

Good to go.

David Goldfarb · 11-12-2007

Another feature of the Perkeo II is that it can reliably get 13 frames per roll, which is handy if you shoot slide film. For neg film it means having to print an extra contact sheet, so I don't do it with neg films. Here are a couple of sample shots--

And I've posted one in color here--

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...1&d=1193614634

jan normandale · 11-12-2007

David , I'm wondering, is that interior shot taken with Provia?

Solinar · 11-12-2007

I kind of like David's first image. Check out the out of focus areas in the background. Notice how the benches and pathway arch towards the center. An excellent composition, if I may say so.

BTW, the smallest 6x6 that I've used is the Perkeo II.

David Goldfarb · 11-12-2007

Thanks, Andrew.

Jan, the shot of Union Station in Washington, D.C. was taken, I'm fairly sure, with Fuji RMS, probably at EI 100 or 200. RMS was designed for pushing up to EI 1000, but the base speed was 100. The color started to get a little odd around 800, so I never pushed it past 400. It was discontinued when Provia 400F was introduced. The exposure must have been fairly slow, and I don't recall having a tripod (I think I was in town for a professional conference), so I probably braced the camera against a pillar or a wastebasket or something. This is a nice feature of the 6x6 format--being able to brace the camera against a vertical or horizontal surface.

bensyverson · 11-13-2007

I'm liking the Perkeo I. I have the Vaskar lens, which is supposed to be so terrible, but I'm finding it quite good. Maybe the anti-Vaskar gossip is internet legend?

I mean, it's obviously not a Mamiya 6... but then again, it's way smaller than the Mamiya. I have another folder which is slimmer than the Perkeo, but it's other dimensions are larger. I find myself using the Olympus XA less and less, as the Bessa is not much bigger...

The rest of my Perkeo shots are here... I'll have more up later this week...

kuzano · 11-13-2007

Those are nice shots. I have a slightly less found Perkeo I with the Color Skopar, but I have to say that the Vaskar has always been very acceptable, just as your finding. In my experience, lenses like the Vaskars on the Voigtlanders, and Novars on some of the Zeiss cameras have been very good in rendering sharp images. It's probably safe to assume the names like Voigtlander and Zeiss never used bad lenses. I've shot 105mm Vaskars on the Bessa I, The helomar on the Bessa RF 6X9, and the 75mm Vaskar on the Perkeo. The Bessa I and the Bessa RF both came with masks to shoot both 6X9 and 6X4.5. I was fortunate enough to find both of those camera's complete with the internal mask. So, between a Perkeo, and either a Bessa I or RF, most of the 6CM formats are covered. It's interesting that the Bessa II never had the intermediate mask.

Anyway, I like your pics and they're great examples of the capability of the less expensive lens. I never had a gripe on the lenses, but I disliked the temperament of the Prontor shutters and the slower speeds.

bensyverson · 11-14-2007

Thanks Kuzano!

The slower speeds are a bummer -- it would be nice to have a faster option than 1/200... but it hasn't been an issue yet. My biggest gripe is that the slowest speed is 1/25 -- I would love to have 1/15 and 1/8 on there...

chippy · 01-31-2008

Kuzano..its my understanding that they did make a Bessa II with duel format and mask (not that i have seen one!). the Bessa II model 1 is without assesory shoe, model 2 has the shoe and model 3 has the mask.

one of these days i will get around to looking for myself at any performance differance in some of the lenes, it will be interesting i think. meaning to test them against each other with the same film, aperatures, conditions ect, I have a Bessa 1 with vaskar, Bessa II w/scopar and Bessa II w/helliar for instance and a heap of other cameras ..hehe just not enough film lol...and time!

i have used a perkeo II (c/scopar 1-500) for yonks, smallest 6x6 i know and is just so easy to keep tucked away somewhere although the pekeo IIIe is only a fraction taller and has the rangefinder i still havnt gotten around to using it..its still in my workbench awaiting a CLA. its a little difficult to get enthusiastic to use it when the lens/shutter spec is less than the P II ;its in near mint otherwise, which is another reason i use my perkeo II; dont have to worry about a scratch, not that i would treat the little pigmy bad!

DaCh · 02-01-2008

Balda Baldix is the smallest I have and it is a rather nice camera to use.
A tiny put it in your pocket camera is the Selfix 16-20
OK it's 6x4.5 and there is no range finder but it is a great little camera.
For some strange reason they made it for left handed use, why did they feel the need?

DaCh · 02-01-2008

Balda Baldix is the smallest I have, and it is a rather nice camera to use.
A realy small, keep it in your pocket camera is the Selfix 16-20
OK so it is 6x4.5 and there is no rangefinder but it is a great little camera.
For some reason they made it for left handed use, why did they feel the need?

VictorM. · 02-01-2008

Balda Baldix. About the size of a Retina IIc. Three element coated 75mm f/2.9 Baltar. Pretty sharp properly set-up and stopped down a bit.

dazedgonebye · 02-01-2008

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

kuzano · 02-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazedgonebye

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

and build by Balda For Hapo department stores in Europe. Have had both... 2 baldix and 1 hapo. All had Enna Werke lens w/2.8 and front cell focus, and rangefinder plus film count and stop. I took some of the sharpest 6X6 B/W images I have ever seen, with the Hapo. The Baldix and Hapo had about the same length dimension as a Perkeo, but about a half inch taller and a half inch thicker.

whitecat · 02-01-2008

I agree. I have them both and it's a real decision when I go to shoot on which to take. I have a Perkeo IIIE with builtin rangefinder and am told by others it is a rare camera.

GeneW · 02-02-2008

How do these folders you mention compare in size to an Ikonta? I have a non-RF Ikonta that seems fairly compact, but have no basis of comparison.

Gene

VictorM. · 02-02-2008

Width: 5 1/16" 129mm

Height: 3 9/16" 90mm

Thickness: 1 3/4" 44mm

Very light camera for it's size. It feels slightly lighter than a Retina IIc. A bonus with the f/2.9 Baltar on mine is that it takes 40.5mm screw-in filters and hoods. Also, a softie screws into the shutter release, making release smoother.

dazedgonebye · 02-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazedgonebye

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

Well, well. Looks like wishes do come true!
I now have a Super Baldax with Ennit f2.8 on the way.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=020

jan normandale · 02-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitecat

I agree. I have them both and it's a real decision when I go to shoot on which to take. I have a Perkeo IIIE with builtin rangefinder and am told by others it is a rare camera.

I've only seen a photo of the Perkeo III, and I've also heard it's a hard one to come by. I'd be interested to see some shots with it and also a couple of the Perkeo III