A digital dude's first experience of film rangefinders

[hinius]

In view of all the discussion concerning the supposed death of digital and how wonderful cameras from the 50s and 60s are, I thought it might be interesting to give a different perspective. I took up photography a bit more than a year ago and have been solely a digital boy. A couple of months ago, thanks to the rabidly tempting discussions on this forum, I took the plunge and decided to broaden my horizons by shooting with a Canonet GIII QL19 and Olympus XA. So far, I've managed to shoot a grand total of about half a dozen rolls.

Suffice to say, shooting film for the first time is... interesting. I love the bright viewfinder on the Canonet, and both cameras are in many ways very superior to the plastic boxes masquerading as compact digital cameras. Instant response is so under-rated until you finally get it. Range-finder focusing is very easy. Manual focus itself still slows me down; much of my photography is of the spontaneous grab variety and I have yet to master hyperfocal distances. Film photography also stills feels intrinsically expensive to me, given the relatively high cost of film and processing in the UK.

However, the one thing that bugs me most of all is film speed. On my DSLRS I'm used to switching between ISO 3200 and 200 in the flick of a button, and I find myself horribly constrained by relatively fixed film speeds. I know you can, as a rough estimate, over or under-expose negative C41 film by about a stop each way, but that's still not overly flexible. And I know that silver b&w film can be pushed as high as necessary, but how does that work if various shots in the roll are taken at various speeds?

I found myself in situations at night with literally half a roll of 'day' film in the camera and I found it to be rather frustrating. I want to ask, what do you guys do? Do you waste a bunch of shots by burning off your extra shots in the roll and reload with high speed film? Do you wander around with high speed film loaded all the time and compensate with neutral density filters? Or do you simply carry multiple bodies?

Thanks any advice you can provide. While I can safely say I'm never giving up digital, shooting in film has been an interesting experience. And naturally, I would kill for a full frame digital rangefinder. Or even just a digital Konica Hexar.

Hin

[Roman]

Originally Posted by hinius

I found myself in situations at night with literally half a roll of 'day' film in the camera and I found it to be rather frustrating. I want to ask, what do you guys do? Do you waste a bunch of shots by burning off your extra shots in the roll and reload with high speed film? Do you wander around with high speed film loaded all the time and compensate with neutral density filters? Or do you simply carry multiple bodies?


Hin

I use the third option - different cameras with different films! I currently have my Bessa L and R loaded withh 400 ISO, the HiMatic 7sII with 100, the XA with 1600 rated at 800, the Konica S2 with 3200, and the Werra Matic with 200 ISO color film - of yourse, I don't carry them all at the same time...

You might also just rewind the film if you want to switch, then note the number of frames taken on the can, and later-on use the half-finished roll again by shooting & advancing with the lens-cap on until you are about 2 frames after what you had noted (just for security); you could also get one of those cheap film-picker thingies, if you are unsure whether you can rewind so that the film-leader is still sticking out of the can...

Roman

[Roman]

Oh, and BTW, you have some very nice shots in the gallery!

Roman

[Kin Lau]

Carry multiple bodies ... you'll soon find out the meaning of "GAS"

Welcome

[Stephen G]

Ya, I have multiple bodies, though for different systems, none can share lenses. However, I tend to load different films in each, or have one empty at least. Either color in one B&W in the other, or high speed vs low speed.

[Stephen G]

I should probably add that I rarely am actually carrying multiple bodies/lenses. For the most part I can get away with one body/lens/film combo. I just make sure to pick up the right one as I head out the door.

[kiev4a]

It's interesting to read the observations of someone weaned on digital who is trying to familiarize himself with things film folks have taken for granted for years. I have the same problem trying to acclimatize myself to digital--the big one being trying to anticipate by a second or more when I should push the button so the camera will go off atthe right time. It's sort of like when the first electronic typewritters came out and there was a lag between pressing the key and the letter being printed on the page. Never could use one. Trying to type while the typewriter was sputtering along several letters behine drove me nuts.

[reellis67]

-snip- I took up photography a bit more than a year ago and have been solely a digital boy.-snip-

Just today I read a post asking "When will we see people who have never shot film?"...

-snip- However, the one thing that bugs me most of all is film speed. On my DSLRS I'm used to switching between ISO 3200 and 200 in the flick of a button, and I find myself horribly constrained by relatively fixed film speeds -snip-

Pushing and pulling film speeds result in different levels of contrast, grain, and other effects that may, or may not, be desireable. I use multiple bodies with different films loaded, but then again, I typicaly know what I am going to be shooting so I know what films to load. You can use a 400 speed film most of the time without having to rely on long exposures or flashes. I use a 100 speed film for my 'coat pcoket' everyday everywhere camera and it works fine for me. Different films have different feels so you may want to experiment at first. Home processing also adds a whole new level to film.

-snip- While I can safely say I'm never giving up digital, shooting in film has been an interesting experience. And naturally, I would kill for a full frame digital rangefinder. Or even just a digital Konica Hexar. -snip-

Wouldn't we all! Film and digital are not (generaly) considered mutualy exclusive. I use both but prefer the look and feel of film cameras, preferably your more vintage models. Everyone should use what they prefer based on thier own impressions, not those of others. I am glad to hear that you tried film and hope that you will continue to do so. Thanks for posting!

- Randy

[RML]

I always load iso400 colour neg film. This gives me high shutter speeds during the day. I like to be able to vary the f-stop, and using my Bessa R I can set shutter times of upto 1/2000 sec; more than enough for most days, unless I shoot bright objects in bright weather.
For night shots I use the same camera with the same film. I'm able to handhold shutter times as low as 1/4 sec, even 1/2 sec if I concentrate on my breathing and support myself. I usually shoot 2 or 3 shots to make sure I get a usuable shot. At iso400 and 1/4 sec I can use f2.8 or faster, or even f4 when there's enough street lights or shop windows available.

The trick is to practise and find out what you can get away with. Some scenes are just too dark and sometimes the wind is just too much of a hinderance to shoot without a tripod.

[pradeep1]

I used to do the multiple bodies....Canon AE-1P with ISO 100 and a 50 f1.4 and a Canon Elan IIe with a 28-105 USM of 75-300 IS with ISO 400 film. That got tiresome.

[pukupi]

Originally Posted by hinius

However, the one thing that bugs me most of all is film speed. On my DSLRS I'm used to switching between ISO 3200 and 200 in the flick of a button, and I find myself horribly constrained by relatively fixed film speeds. I know you can, as a rough estimate, over or under-expose negative C41 film by about a stop each way, but that's still not overly flexible. And I know that silver b&w film can be pushed as high as necessary, but how does that work if various shots in the roll are taken at various speeds?

I found myself in situations at night with literally half a roll of 'day' film in the camera and I found it to be rather frustrating. I want to ask, what do you guys do? Do you waste a bunch of shots by burning off your extra shots in the roll and reload with high speed film? Do you wander around with high speed film loaded all the time and compensate with neutral density filters? Or do you simply carry multiple bodies?

When I moved to film from digital I also and found fixed ISO a bit tricky.

RFs are great at enabling you to successfully shoot at very low shutter speeds so you can usually get the shot even when caught with the wrong ISO film as in the night shot below. It may have been easier with my dSLR, but it would have had a lot more noise too.

[hinius]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm definitely going to keep using film rangefinders as they really have their place when I need a compact, quiet camera. While I still find the vagaries of film less convenient than processing of camera RAW files (you must all be rolling your eyes), I think it's important to keep a balance between the two mediums (besides, an entire brick of Fuji Neopan has just arrived on my doorstep). I'm also going to try the multiple body thing; I have a Hexar AF arriving from Ebay in a couple of days!

Originally Posted by Roman

You might also just rewind the film if you want to switch, then note the number of frames taken on the can, and later-on use the half-finished roll again by shooting & advancing with the lens-cap on until you are about 2 frames after what you had noted (just for security); you could also get one of those cheap film-picker thingies, if you are unsure whether you can rewind so that the film-leader is still sticking out of the can...

Roman

I'm going to sound very stupid, but once the film is rewound, how exactly do I advance it beyond my previous point. Surely despite the lens cap being on, I would have to open the shutter and therefore be exposing on my previous shots? Is that a double exposure? Is that even possible?

thanks,
Hin

[Roman]

Well, if the lens-cap is on, no light is going to reach the film, so you are double exposing without an image being formed by the second (black) exposure - no problem at all; on an auto-only camera this is harder to do, since the camera will want to choose very long exposure times - on the XA you can do it in the flash mode, not sure about the Canonet.

Roman

[Pherdinand]

On the canonet, set it to manual.

[tamerlin]

Originally Posted by hinius

In view of all the discussion concerning the supposed death of digital and how wonderful cameras from the 50s and 60s are, I thought it might be interesting to give a different perspective. I took up photography a bit more than a year ago and have been solely a digital boy.

I'm going through exactly the same transition right now, having just added a Leica m7 to my
digital kit (Canon DRebel).

I don't change ISO settings on my Canon very much though, so that hasn't been much of an issue
for me -- yet. I imagine it will be, but since I'm just getting used to using a rangefinder, I'm not too
concerned about that part -- yet. When I get more confident using the rangefinder and getting
proper exposure and all that, that's when I'll probably start paying attention to film speeds. Right now,
there's just too much else to think about.

[RayPA]

Originally Posted by hinius

...On my DSLRS I'm used to switching between ISO 3200 and 200 in the flick of a button, and I find myself horribly constrained by relatively fixed film speeds...

I found myself in situations at night with literally half a roll of 'day' film in the camera and I found it to be rather frustrating. I want to ask, what do you guys do?
Hin

I shoot primarily b&w, so I bulk load my film, and rarely wind up more than 30 exposures on a roll, keeping instead down to around 20 exposures. I usually carry several rolls with me.

[alfa]

I use my rangefinder for artistic projects so I'm actually very happy if I'm obliged to a film, I need to adapt and think the picture far more than with my dSRL, it allows for artistic creation to bloom as flowers in spring...and the results are homogeneous and with a high quality.

[Stephen G]

I forgot to mention, I too also bulk roll film for both economy and flexibility. I shoot rolls of 24 or shorter, and have a few different bulk rolls to choose from. Between that and different combinations of developers with which I do some pushing, I have a wide range of ISO's to choose from.

Some of my favorites:
Ilford Delta 3200 in Microphen @ 1600-3200
Fuji Neopan 1600 in D76 @ 1600
Ilford HP5+ in Microphen @ 800-1600
Ilford HP5+ in Diafine @ 800
Ilford HP5+ in D76 @ 400
Ilford Delta 100 in Microphen @ 200
Ilford Delta 100 in D76 or Rodinal @ 100
Ilford Pan F+ in Rodinal @ 50
and a recent wild experiment: HP5+ in Rodinal @ 6400

People say 'stick with one developr and film for a year and then try others', but that might be a little too slow if you are shooting enough. To me..for versatility, pick 2 films, a 100 speed and a 400 speed. Then you can stay with a standard developer like D76 until you get consistent results (might take 2 weeks, might take 6 months depending on volume) and then start to play with push/pull, other developers and other films.

[emraphoto]

i recently returned to shooting primarily film from a long foray into digital. the only issue i was truly expecting to miss was the ability to switch iso speeds almost instantly and get fairly good results (canon 20d) without carrying a lot of gear and film. one day i was "browsing" some of my old prints from a contax 159mm planar 50mm f1.7 combo and was absolutely stunned by the results. there literally was NO cmparison in image quality between the canon primes and zeiss primes. zeiss ruled supreme. soooo... after much thought i sold the 20d set-up, a few lenses etc and purchased a contax g2 body, g1 body, 45mm and 28mm. i carry the g2 with kodak tmax 400 and the g1 with fuji press 800. the lenses are obviously interchangeable. both bodies, lenses, a few rolls of film, a lens cloth and spare baterries take up about 1/4 the space the 20d and i find i can easily take them everywhere...
another great attribute of the g's is that when you rewind the film it leaves the leader exposed. if you happen to absolutely need a 1600 or 3200 speed film you rewind, insert film and fire away. when you return to the 400 or 800 simply fire the frames away (with lens cap in place!) to where you had left off.
it may not be a button or sub-menu but i suppose the POINT IS the g's take infinately better images (with practice) without losing any of the convenience fators. things just take a little more thinking and time. the build quality and image quality of the contax g's is just not available in a digital format for anywhere near the same dollar value.
regards
john
it's all about the glass

[dgray]

When I am advancing a half shot roll back to the place where I left off, I manually set my aperture at its smallest (f16 or 22) and the shutter speed at is fastest (500 on your Canonet) in addition to keeping the lens cap on, just to make sure that no stray light actually makes an impact on the film. Maybe that's a little bit of overkill, but it's not a bad habit to get into.

[Andy K]

Originally Posted by hinius

I found myself in situations at night with literally half a roll of 'day' film in the camera and I found it to be rather frustrating. I want to ask, what do you guys do? Do you waste a bunch of shots by burning off your extra shots in the roll and reload with high speed film? Do you wander around with high speed film loaded all the time and compensate with neutral density filters? Or do you simply carry multiple bodies?

Thanks any advice you can provide. While I can safely say I'm never giving up digital, shooting in film has been an interesting experience. And naturally, I would kill for a full frame digital rangefinder. Or even just a digital Konica Hexar.

Hin

I bulk load my own film canisters. Maximum 18 frames in each. I rarely get caught needing to change mid-roll. If I do get caught out it is no big deal to note the number of frames shot, rewind the film, mark the number of frames used on the film leader and then load the camera with the different ISO film.

[hinius]

Wow, new replies to a really old post. Just as a follow up, I found a solution I was comfortable with: shoot with Tri-X @ 1600 and develop in Diafine. I'm shooting on a Hexar RF with a minimum shutter speed of 1/4000, so I can handle really bright lighting conditions. If it wasn't for Diafine, I don't think I'd shoot anywhere near as much film as I do.

[jaapv]

I'm one of those wasteful guys that simply pulls the film and pops in another. There is now law that tells me to fill up the roll.
When shooting digital I tend to shoot on 100 ASA, as I think (wrongly no doubt) that I lose dynamic range at high ISO, even if the noise is tolerable. In RF photography I find, with practice, that I can shoot quite long exposure times handheld. That helps.

[traveller]

Coming from digital I realized quite fast that it's no problem to change films when writing down the frame number. But the real problem has been to get used to take my time before shooting. Digital I didn't mind about the number of the pictures I shoot, my CF-card being big enough, analog I had to consider film and developing.
But getting used to that is much easier than getting used to the shutter delay of a digital P&S .

[tetrisattack]

Almost two years ago I too switched from a DSLR to film cameras and was also dreading the lack of selectable ISO. Now, in retrospect, I don't think it was a problem - my shooting style just adapted to sticking with what's in the camera, or just keeping more than one junker body around for an "emergency." It's surprising what you can pull off with ISO 100 film indoors, especially if you have control over your development. 400 to an even greater extent!