Ilford Pan F development suggestions?

jbf · 10-18-2007

Hey all,

I'm planning on trying out some PanF+ soon for some landscape shots i hope to do back home in about three weeks or so... and I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions with what kind of developer, etc?

I am hoping for a developer that will work well with PanF but also with HP5+ and even Tri-X. I dont necessarily like my photos to be chalk and charcole, but I do like it to have good tonality as well as good contrast (though not too much).

Any suggestions on developer and times possibly?

NickTrop · 10-18-2007

I LOVE Pan F in Rodinal. I think you'll love it. Sharp, contrasty, good tonal range, beautiful. Rodinal is good with Tri-X but a lot of folks don't like it with HP5.

jbf · 10-18-2007

Hmmm... is Rodinal hard to use? I hear there are some developers that you have to mix as a powder... definately dont want to have to do that. Would prefer the ease of using liquid concentrate developers i think.

Do you know where I might be able to find examples of Pan F in rodinal?

Thanks so much, Nick.

NickTrop · 10-18-2007

Rodinal is very easy and comes in concentrate, no mixing. There's some good samples if you Google "Pan F in Rodinal" (no parens) and click the "images" link on the Google home page. I'm sure if you put that phrase in Flickr you will also see some examples.

Rodinal is renouned for its sharpness and is a good match for slower traditional emulsions, like Pan F. It is grainier than most developers but is known for its acutence - sharpness, and has a nice tonal range. It also lasts forever. (Its a bad match for higher speed films - 400 and over, because grain can get intrusive). Modern slower speed films in Rodinal have no issue with grain. Rodinal was the first commercial film developer, marketed back in the 1800's.

John Robertson · 10-18-2007

Would also recommend Rodinal.
info here.
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html
you could also try T-Max, another nice combo.

Trius · 10-18-2007

I would also recommend Rodinal, though for the last roll of Pan F+ I used Ilford DD-X according to the recommendations, and it was really nice. However, my next rolls of Pan F+ will be developed in Rodinal, or maybe Rodinal + Xtol.

The nice thing about Rodinal is that the stock solution keeps a long, long time. You really don't have to worry about it going flat over time.

jbf · 10-18-2007

Hmm... that is a good point about it's shelf life.

How does DDX work with 400 speed films?

The only thing keeping me from using rodinal would be that besides this project with panF...i mostly shoot 400 speed films...

so i'm worried that the 400 iso film might be too grainy for my tastes with rodinal...

How does DDX fair with 400 speed film?

Ronald M · 10-18-2007

ID 11 or D76 works superbly with all three.

If you want to spend a lot of money, use DDx to no benefit. Use DDx for Delta 400 only. Manditory almost.

cmedin · 10-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbf

Hmmm... is Rodinal hard to use? I hear there are some developers that you have to mix as a powder... definately dont want to have to do that. Would prefer the ease of using liquid concentrate developers i think.

Honestly, it's a non-issue. You mix up a batch (I usually do a gallon of D76) and it lasts months. Takes all of five minutes to mix with some warm water. Because of the distribution of chemicals within the powder you have to mix the entire thing at once, so you're either doing a quart or a gallon.

Never Satisfied · 10-18-2007

As above, Rodinal for Pan F and for most films if you want to stick with just one developer. T-max dev is also a good choice for faster films, but is like DDX, a bit dear and is mixed 1:4, so it doesn't stretch all that far where as Rodinal is 1:25 or 1:50, very ecconomical. Andrew.

Trius · 10-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbf

The only thing keeping me from using rodinal would be that besides this project with panF...i mostly shoot 400 speed films...

so i'm worried that the 400 iso film might be too grainy for my tastes with rodinal...

How does DDX fair with 400 speed film?

Tri-X in Rodinal, 1:100 @ 20C, 20 min, 30 sec agitation then 3 inversions every 5 minutes:

rpsawin · 10-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald M

ID 11 or D76 works superbly with all three.

If you want to spend a lot of money, use DDx to no benefit. Use DDx for Delta 400 only. Manditory almost.

I agree with Ronald. Lately, I have been developing all my 35mm FP4+ in DDX and love it! I have yet to run any 120 thru DDX but expect it to look great as well.

I have not really been impressed with HP5+/DDX.

Bob

jbf · 10-18-2007

Yeah Im not a big fan of rodinal and Tri-X it seems. I was never a big fan of the ghost outline effect you get along the edges of things.

So... yeah i dunno. I'm so lost.

Doug · 10-18-2007

Diafine! Virtually made for Tri-X (EI 1250), lovely I think with HP-5 (EI 800), and gives nice results with FP-4 (EI 250) and Pan-F (EI 50) too. So convenient I now use it for everything.

jbf · 10-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmedin

Honestly, it's a non-issue. You mix up a batch (I usually do a gallon of D76) and it lasts months. Takes all of five minutes to mix with some warm water. Because of the distribution of chemicals within the powder you have to mix the entire thing at once, so you're either doing a quart or a gallon.

What do you store your developer in once it's been mixed together?

As long as I dont have to be super perfect with temperatures of water when i mix solutions together then I'll be fine I guess...

Also, what do you guys use to measure the 1:50, etc style dillutions with the rodinal and other extremely concentrated developers?

I've only used Sprint Developer and it's only 1:9 dillution... so i would need a graduated cylinder that has much more precise markings from what i'm used to i imagine.

Chriscrawfordphoto · 10-18-2007

I like Pan F in rodinal. I have done it in Xtol too and it has finer grain but is not quite as sharp looking. I like the tonality with Rodinal a bit better too.

Here's one in Rodinal.

and here's one in Xtol.

jbf · 10-18-2007

Wow those shots have great tonality and look to them. The second shot is great!

Did you use a red filter on the second? The sky looks like a red filter was ued. So much more dramatic.

Man these shots of PanF make me really want to use rodinal, etc.

I just wish that rodinal would have beter results with faster films such as hp5...

my main concern is that with tri-x or hp5+ rodinal will end up giving me the "unsharp mask" effect where edges of dark and light areas have halos or a "ghosting" like effect.

EmilGil · 10-18-2007

More samples of PanF+ and APX100 in Rodinal (most of it downrated one stop and pulled in development to reduce the contrast, it was a couple of very sunny days in Paris):

http://www.gildebrand.com/emil/RFF-Paris

jbf · 10-18-2007

Wow some of those shots are gorgeous! Love the tonality your getting from those.

I always thought that with a PanF or 100 speed film you'd have trouble shooting without tripods... guess not. Hah.

So for APX100 you rated it at 50 and then pull it correct? But so then do you expose the film at 50 as well? By pulling the film you are stopping the development early right?

What exactly does it do besides affect contrast? Cant it affect the actual density of the negative?

EmilGil · 10-18-2007

Thanks for your kind words JBF.

APX100 was exposed at EI50 and PanF at EI25, both developed approx. 20% shorter time than normal. The idea of pulling the film (overexposing and underdeveloping) is to reduce the contrast of the negative to avoid blown-out highlights and sooted shadows. By overexposing the film you make sure to have plenty of detail in the shadows while controlling the density of the highlights through development - expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights.

Some people call the entire process pulling, that is they include both the overexposure and underdevelopment in the definition. Same for pushing, underexposing and overdeveloping which will yield a higher contrast negative with less shadow detail. For each stop in any direction, increase or decrease the development time about 20% (subject to film specific testing!)

As for the tripod, I even took some shots with PanF (EI25) and a 2 stop orange filter to increase the definition in the sky. At EI6, you need a steady hand even in pretty bright sunlight!

Chriscrawfordphoto · 10-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbf

Wow those shots have great tonality and look to them. The second shot is great!

Did you use a red filter on the second? The sky looks like a red filter was ued. So much more dramatic.

Man these shots of PanF make me really want to use rodinal, etc.

I just wish that rodinal would have beter results with faster films such as hp5...

my main concern is that with tri-x or hp5+ rodinal will end up giving me the "unsharp mask" effect where edges of dark and light areas have halos or a "ghosting" like effect.

No filters used. Thats just the way the sky usually is in Santa Fe. Its so deep blue that a filter would distort it, really. Both shots were done in Santa Fe, both in the winter at the beginning of this year. The Rainbow snow one was done earliest...we got a lot of snow this year. The War protester was done as winter was ending, on a sunny blue sky day. Overcast days like the Rainbow Snow photo show are rare even in winter here.

I've used Rodinal for both HP5 and Tri-X and never saw an unsharp mask halo effect. Rodinal isn't that strong of an acutance developer....it improves sharpness nicely without distorting the tonality like extremely high acutance developers can.

You mentioned handholding slow films in another post. Both these were handheld. On sunny days, handholding Pan-F is easy. here I get exposures on sunny days in winter of around 1/60 at f8 or 11. That's enough for handholding most things that aren't moving. The snow scene was an overcast day and I think it was about 1/15 at f8. i'm good at handholding slow speeds.

Both shots were done with an Olympus OM-4T and Olympus Zuiko 35mm f2 lens. Both Pan-F at EI 50. The Rainbow Snow photo developed in Rodinal 1+50 for 12 minutes at 68 deg and the Protester was developed at a local pro lab that uses straight Xtol, undiluted. Don't know the dev time. I have processed film since I was a kid but I had a lab do some stuff for me when I went back to film after flirting with digital because I had left my developing tanks at my parents house in Indiana. I eventually got my family to round up my tanks and ship them to me so I could do my own. I like Rodinal a lot more than Xtol.

MikeCassidy · 10-20-2007

D76 and Pan F are very nice. In fact D76 with all film is nice. I know three very good photographers, all teaching at ICP, who use D76 on all their film.

I use Rodinal 1-50 agate every 2 minutes - gently. If your developing something like Pan F I'd use 1-50 or 1-100; get those tones. Rodinal reacts to agitation so you may need experiment with agitation to get the results you like.

As Michael Silverwise said to me Wednesday evening when we were talking about film and developer:

'Content, I'm concerned about content, after that the cheapest film and developer that will work.'

I was experimenting with Rodinal, Microdol-X, DK-50, and D-76 on Tri-X and Plus-X. I think I've the last eight cans of DK-50. I once used Rodinal exclusively; always 1-50 for varying times and with varying agitation to up or lower the contrast.

Michael's statement though is at the heart of what I'm hoping to do/think. Content.

patrickhh · 10-20-2007

Just FYI, here are some sample pics from me. I'm just starting to play with Rodinal. I like the gritty grain it gives to HP5+. With PANF+, I don't see noticeable grain (at least in 120 negs, didn't shoot PANF+ 35mm yet).

PANF+ 120 in rodinal 1+25

HP5+ 35mm in rodinal 1+25

Trius · 10-20-2007

Mike: Great comments about content, and about Rodinal & agitation. This is one reason when I start processing sheet film again I will use tanks rather than trays. Rodinal with constant agitation in a tray would leave me too little control.

And Rodinal is cheap!

jbf: For precise measurement, get a syringe. Since a syringe with sharps is a controlled device in most places, just go to the drug store and get a syringe made for dosing small quantities of liquid medicine to infants. Cheap and easy to use.

jbf · 10-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickhh

Just FYI, here are some sample pics from me. I'm just starting to play with Rodinal. I like the gritty grain it gives to HP5+. With PANF+, I don't see noticeable grain (at least in 120 negs, didn't shoot PANF+ 35mm yet).

PANF+ 120 in rodinal 1+25

HP5+ 35mm in rodinal 1+25

Wow, the HP5+ in rodinal looks so different from most shots i've ever seen.

How did you get this look with such rich darks, etc? Was it simply the lighting at th etime, or did you happen to push or pull any? It looks great!!

Trius: Thanks for the tip on the syringe, etc! I think I'll definately be checking out Rodinal after seeing the results a lot of you have gotten. Some are extremely surprising.