2 things...

[Fred Burton]

Of course, that big money in 1937 bought you a state of the art camera on the cutting edge. $1250 for an M6 today bought a relic from the past, an M3 with a meter.

And I'm not putting down the Leica M's - I own Leicas. But the equivalent dollars today for a Leica should buy a state of the art camera.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Fred Burton

But the equivalent dollars today for a Leica should buy a state of the art camera.

Many people seem to think that, like "Art", a "state of the art camera" is in the beholder (forget the eye): it has to play MP3s, shoot video, and cost only $9.99 Because g@wd forbid you have to pay for something that costs money to make.

[photogdave]

Originally Posted by Fred Burton

Of course, that big money in 1937 bought you a state of the art camera on the cutting edge. $1250 for an M6 today bought a relic from the past, an M3 with a meter.

And I'm not putting down the Leica M's - I own Leicas. But the equivalent dollars today for a Leica should buy a state of the art camera.

Leicas are state-of-the-art...rangefinders.

[Frankie]

Leica is a religion...believers don't need reason, just faith. Preachers don't need logic...dogma works.

Converts imagining themselves poets of photography that they are not...fantasy motivates.

Leica is not used by photo journalists...a in-your-face Nikon is more the norm.

No sports photographer can make a living using a Leica...motor drive rules.

Leica M is useless in telephoto lenses...so tout wide-angles.

Leica M is hopeless in close-ups...so promote street photography, whatever that is.

Leica makes collectors' market, which has nothing to do with photography.

Talk is cheap...show me pictures.

[funkaoshi]

Leicas are state-of-the-art...rangefinders.

Are they though? State of the Art for Rangefinders is a camera design from the 50s? I find that hard to believe. I like my Leica very much, but there are certainly more advanced cameras out there. I mean, the Zeis Ikon is probably more 'state of the art' than an M7.

[photogdave]

Originally Posted by funkaoshi

Leicas are state-of-the-art...rangefinders.

Are they though? State of the Art for Rangefinders is a camera design from the 50s? I find that hard to believe. I like my Leica very much, but there are certainly more advanced cameras out there. I mean, the Zeis Ikon is probably more 'state of the art' than an M7.

I think the Ikon is a better deal than the M7 but not necessarily more advanced. I would also say the Konica Hexar is more advanced but one could argue that lack of TTL flash makes it otherwise.

[funkaoshi]

Personally I think there is only so much you can do with an MP or an M7 in terms of tech. They are basically manual cameras for people that want manual cameras.

[aizan]

they could modernize the leica by using the same engineering approach as zeiss.

i'm visualizing an mp with the following changes: swing back film loading, an extra tug on the rewind knob opens the back, mechanical version of the m8 shutter, battery compartment moved to the bottom, centered tripod socket, magnesium body shell, bipack paint from the m8.2, frameline preview lever and lens release button from the m8, and redesigned iso dial so it's just like the flatter classic dial, only with the new lettering.

that makes for a seamless, modern camera that doesn't look like a half-baked attempt to keep up with the times.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Leica is a religion...believers don't need reason, just faith. Preachers don't need logic...dogma works.

Converts imagining themselves poets of photography that they are not...fantasy motivates.

Leica is not used by photo journalists...a in-your-face Nikon is more the norm.

No sports photographer can make a living using a Leica...motor drive rules.

Leica M is useless in telephoto lenses...so tout wide-angles.

Leica M is hopeless in close-ups...so promote street photography, whatever that is.

Leica makes collectors' market, which has nothing to do with photography.

Talk is cheap...show me pictures.

Wow. I didn't know all the photos I've taken with my Leicas have not been taken with my Leicas.

Confucius say talk is expensive...take pictures.

[Leigh Youdale]

Think about this.
1. Leica do not see themselves as being in competition with any other manufacturer.
2. They have identified a small but available demographic of people who will buy their cameras as a high price point. With the advent of digital most of these are not professionals but well heeled amateurs.
3. If they set about producing more units and selling at a lower price they devalue the product in the eyes of their chosen demographic and would probably not make any more money. They would need to increase manufacturing capacity, which costs, and likely as not the added volume would be marginally profitable at best.
4. What have they got to gain? (And that's not the same as what you might want to have!)

[drec]

Originally Posted by tedwhite

What's the matter with continuing to produce the M6 at a price that most amateurs can actually afford? (to say nothing of pro's who would no doubt buy the camera also).

I know this is an old thread, but I just discovered it (mainly since I bought an M6 a couple of weeks ago - my first).

There are so many used Ms on Ebay, KEH, craigslist, etc., that I could never see the need to buy new. There is no way that I could ever come close to owning anything Leica new now.

I'm not saying that Leica shouldn't make an affordable M (pardon the double negative), but just that I don't see it as necessary. The rich guys can get their MPs; people in my financial shoes can get a used M6... or in my case, a worn M4-P for $400!

[jaapv]

Interesting to reread this discussion in the light of the highly profitable digital turnaround leica has made over the last four years - it seems Leica's management knows more about the market than forum members...

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by caffeineshutter

Talk about diluting the name and reputation. In marketing parlance, one wouldn not want the "Leica" and "Panasonic" names in the "front-of-mind" for your intended demographic.

Well a good deal of Leicas are sold to Japan and from what I understand Panasonic is a respected name in Japan. Maybe not such a bad thing really.

[kemal_mumcu]

The rumor is that Leica sold all 500 of their "Titans" within a couple hours. If that is true, Leica will be fine. There is obviously a market for high priced boutique items.

In '07 they were saying Leica prices were astronomical and couldn't go higher...

[Cyriljay]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Leica is a religion...believers don't need reason, just faith. Preachers don't need logic...dogma works.

Converts imagining themselves poets of photography that they are not...fantasy motivates.

Leica is not used by photo journalists...a in-your-face Nikon is more the norm.

No sports photographer can make a living using a Leica...motor drive rules.

Leica M is useless in telephoto lenses...so tout wide-angles.

Leica M is hopeless in close-ups...so promote street photography, whatever that is.

Leica makes collectors' market, which has nothing to do with photography.

Talk is cheap...show me pictures.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by jaapv

. . . it seems Leica's management knows more about the market than forum members...

Surely not! What a surprise!

Cheers,

R.

[Ajax]

In my recent review of the M-Monochrom published in the current (April) issue of the BJP, I commented briefly on the finance/cost issues of digital Leica-Ms, in effect, stating that I thought the Monochrom was probably the first digital M to come out of Solms which will not need upgrading in the forseeable future. There are a basket full of arguments about what Leica should have come to market with first that really worked, but all a little pointless in my view. The new M (which I am also reviewing for the BJP.), is well ahead of its CFA'd predecessors and priced accordingly. Do I want one? Yes. Do I need it? No. I'd rather have the M-M; it would see me out. That said, I'm still cranking film and enjoying it; so much so, I recently added an S3 Y2003K special edition to the wardrobe, to replace the one I sold more than 20 years back, an act that has been bugging me ever since.

JE

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