Olympus XA film transport problem?

GeneW · 03-08-2004

Yikes, the film I developed last night from my trusty little XA had a couple of slightly overlapping frames. It happened in two different places on this roll. Never seen a problem before.

I hope this doesn't mean the beginning of the end. Anyone ever experienced this with an XA? (I may be the only XA shooter on the forum)

Any tips? (bearing in mind I can barely change a lightbulb...) Could it be a one-time anomaly?

Gene

Doug · 03-08-2004

I don't know, Gene, but it doesn't sound too good! At the other ends of the frames that slightly overlap is there a larger than usual space between the frames? I guess it could be helpful to know if there's some total film spacing lost of if it was just shifted to the side for an isolated exposure a couple of times.

GeneW · 03-08-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Doug
I don't know, Gene, but it doesn't sound too good! At the other ends of the frames that slightly overlap is there a larger than usual space between the frames? I guess it could be helpful to know if there's some total film spacing lost of if it was just shifted to the side for an isolated exposure a couple of times.

There were no larger than usual gaps between any of the frames. It just seemed that on two of the frames (not near each other), the film wasn't pulled far enough along after the exposure.

I'll run another roll through it to see if I get a repeat. Fingers crossed, but as Han Solo said as the tractor beam pulled the Millenium Falcon into the Death Star, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

Gene

RangefinderR2 · 03-09-2004

Gene-
I'm not well versed in the XA, but is it battery operated? If so, when did you last replace them? I had a problem with my Yashica T4 Super once, where as the batteries were on their last legs, they ran a couple of frames together, simply because the power wasn't there to fully advance the frames. Just a thought, and a cheap possible attempt at a fix.
Oh yes, was the camera cold? I notice you are in Toronto. That place is almost as cold as it is here (Minneapolis) and while some cameras work better under cold conditions, overall I don't trust any body when it gets cold. Were the frames at the end of a roll of shooting outside? Come to think of it (as long as I'm delving in conjecture over my moring coffee) low batt power combined with a cold camera could wreak havoc.
Parker

GeneW · 03-09-2004

Parker, thanks very much for your suggestions. The XA is a hybrid RF. The electronics (i.e. batteries) control the meter and the shutter only. It wasn't terribly cold when I was shooting the last roll, and it had been protected in my pocket until just before use. Focus, aperture and film wind on this cam are manual and mechanical. The film advance is a thumbwheel rather than a traditional lever. It's one of the tiniest RF's made.

I purchased this one new in 1978 so it doesn't owe me much, but it's an old friend and my favourite pocket camera so I'm hoping it'll be okay, but realistically, the cam is a bit long in the tooth and was not built to robust Leica or even Bessa standards.

I also have a newish Stylus Epic that is even smaller and its lens is very sharp, but without aperture priority and manual focus, it's not as useful to me. Sigh...

I don't tend to carry my Leica CL around with me. Maybe I'll get a belt bag for it. Although it's delightfully small, it's too bulky for a pocket, so it's never been my go-everywhere cam.

Gene

bmattock · 03-10-2004

Gene,

I've two XA's and one XA2, no problems such as the one you experienced. I have had the problem with other cameras, so I know what you're talking about, but not with the XA's. I hope you don't have a real problem, but perhaps shooting another roll of film will test things out.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

GeneW · 03-10-2004

Bill, thanks very much for your feedback on this. I was hoping to hear from another XA owner. If you've not run into this problem, then it's possible I had a one-time anomaly. I'll put another roll through and cross my fingers.

Gene

back alley · 03-10-2004

let's all keep our fingers crossed...

joe

XAos · 05-29-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneW

Yikes, the film I developed last night from my trusty little XA had a couple of slightly overlapping frames. It happened in two different places on this roll. Never seen a problem before.

I hope this doesn't mean the beginning of the end. Anyone ever experienced this with an XA? (I may be the only XA shooter on the forum)
Gene

I just bought an XA2 (two of em actually). Both need new seals (gummy, but no leaks seen so far), but one of em suddenly developed a bad winding problem about 8 shots into a roll. This was the third roll I've shot through this camera, had finally started to trust it, and I got 8 shots into the roll and it just started clicking when I tried to advance the film. Not the soft click of the ratchet, but the sprocket teeth slipping past the holes in the film. I threw it in the changing bag when I got home and confirmed that I had indeed shot several exposures before it quit advancing. (Iie, it wasn't just problems with the leader slipping out.) I've made a couple attempts to load a fresh roll in and no dice.

Any experience with this problem? I can't find anything on these forums or elsewhere indicating this is a VCFM (very common failure mode). Other than the lack of really fast film speed support and the fact that it's extremely easy to forget about the zone focus resetting when the camera is closed, I love these little gems, and dearly hope it's easily fixed.

JOE1951 · 05-29-2005

Hello

I won't be much help with your problem, but here is my experience.

I own two XAs. Bought the two of them of them for $50CDN. One is in really good shape and the other not so good.

The good camera gave me advance problems. It would advance film, but there would be a large gap between frames. The gap would increase in size to @half a frame in size, the further along I went shooting the roll of film.

I realized there was a problem while shooting, when I was able to keep advancing film well past the 36 exposure mark, giving me a number of overlapped exposures at the end of the roll. Got 22, out of a potential 36 exp.

Odd thing is that I've run film in this camera again and it hasn't happened again? I don't use it for important stuff. The other camera is older but in bad cosmetic condition but it works better than the 'good" camera.

I've tried disassembling the camera to see if I could fix, but I can't pin it down.

I do know there is a free XA repair/parts manual on PDF out there on the net. I've seen it but it wasn't much use to me.

I paid so little for these cameras, I figure it wouldn't be worth trying to fix them.

Trius · 05-30-2005

Gene: I'm another XA shooter here, so you're definitely not alone! I've never experienced this problem with an XA (I've had 3, two currently at hand, one lost or stolen,) though I have seen this problem on another body, an OM IIRC. Both of my current XAs need a CLA, I'll send them in one-at-a-time to John. Post to the OM list and see what John says.

Trius

hoot · 05-30-2005

Hey, Gene. Only XA shooter on the forum? Who are you kidding? I never leave home without that little devil in my pocket.

My XA tends to leave too much space between frames at the beginning of each roll, and the spacing gets tighter and tighter towards the end. I avoid overlapping by shooting just 36 photos and then rewinding the film without trying to get one or two more shots out of it.

GeneW · 05-30-2005

Wow, this is an old thread. I'd forgotten about it. Once I switched away from a suspect batch of Ilford HP5+ I never had the problem again -- film advance was smooth as silk. The XA has now been sold, as has the Leica CL. I've been switching cameras quite a bit in the past year or so...

Gene

DougK · 05-30-2005

I haven't run into this problem myself so I can't really offer anything. I'll watch out for Ilford though should I run any through my XA.

Trius · 05-31-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneW

Wow, this is an old thread. I'd forgotten about it. Once I switched away from a suspect batch of Ilford HP5+ I never had the problem again -- film advance was smooth as silk. The XA has now been sold, as has the Leica CL. I've been switching cameras quite a bit in the past year or so...

Gene

Gene: LOL. In any event, I never would have thought that the film could be causing the problem. Did you ever figure out how it might have done that?

Anyway, happy shooting, esp. now that the "good" weather is here!

Trius

pshinkaw · 05-31-2005

I carry an XA in my briefcase, but not on humid days. Mine has tendency to collect and condense moisture on the internal lens components. It also quits firing when that happens. After I dry it out in an air conditioned room it goes back to working perfectly.

One of these dya I'll get it CLA'd. When iit works it is terrific!

-Paul

XAos · 05-31-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trius

Gene: LOL. In any event, I never would have thought that the film could be causing the problem. Did you ever figure out how it might have done that?
Trius

I posted this on the one in the repair forum, but... I a couple different brands and some bulk film through - all failed to feed once it started happening. But....

I bought a light seal kit, started scraping the gummy foam out, swabbing it to get the stuff out. Kit's not here yet, but Jon emailed me some XA specific directions. I was looking at the sprocket and the pressure plate thinking it has to be the pressure plate. Put a roll in and it worked beautifully. I put the pressure plate back in and it still worked beautifully. I think my problem was gummy foam on the rails. If the pressure plate was on, the gum on the rails created enough drag to cause the sprocket teeth to slip.

Trius · 05-31-2005

Thanks, XAos. That's something to be aware of for any camera.

Trius

GeneW · 05-31-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trius

Gene: LOL. In any event, I never would have thought that the film could be causing the problem. Did you ever figure out how it might have done that?

Anyway, happy shooting, esp. now that the "good" weather is here!

Trius

That particular batch of HP5+ was being sold as a 'student special' at one of the Toronto camera stores. It jammed two different cameras. When I switched films, neither camera had any further issues. The store never carried that 'special' again -- I suspect, but could never prove, it was a sub-standard batch that got fobbed off on the student population. I've never had a problem with Ilford films before or since -- just the one batch.

Gene

XAos · 06-10-2005

Its back. new seals didn't fix it. Feeds roll of neopan, quits feeding about 16 shots (as opposed to 8 before new light seals) into a bulk roll. I wonder if the pressure plate isn't giving enough pressure. The teeth of the sprocket do not appear to be worn - its about the only way I can see it slipping past them

filmgoerjuan · 01-30-2006

I know this is an old thread, but as I've had the exact same problem with my XA, I thought I'd add to this rather than start something new.

My first roll through the XA had a whole bunch of overlapping frames and the last frame had about 10+ shots taken on the same piece of film. I investigated the film advance with an exposed roll of film I have for testing and found this:

- the film advance teeth don't appear to move when I turn the film advance wheel (i.e. they're not aiding in moving the film forward); in fact, the sprocket holes often come off of the teeth. The film can be rewound without having to press in the little button on the bottom to release these teeth...they seem to be entirely removed from the system of advancing/rewinding the film (except perhaps to offer some resistance to advancing the film that compounds the problem detailed below)

- there are two elements to the take up reel - a metal spindle that is rotated by turning the film advance wheel and a plastic spindle that surrounds the metal spindle and has the little slots that you put the film leader into. With no resistance, both spindles rotate when you turn the film advance wheel; however, with very little resistance, the central metal spindle turns normally (allowing you to cock the shutter), but the outer plastic spindle turns either not at all or less than the full amount required to advance the film by an entire frame. Consequently, the film is advanced inconsistently, resulting in slightly overlapping frames; in the case of the last frame on a roll, the film cannot advance further, but the advance wheel will keep turning. Hence, the last frame on my roll that had 10+ shots exposed on the film.

So the issue seems to be twofold:

1) assuming they work like just about every other camera I own, the teeth are supposed to engage with the sprockets on the film and turn as the film advance wheel is turned, pulling the film from the cannister -- somehow they've become disengaged from the mechanism

2) the outer plastic spindle is connected to the inner metal spindle by some means (friction?). With little or no resistance, it's capable of advancing the film forward when the film advance wheel is turned; however, without the teeth aiding it, anything more than very gentle resistance results in the film not advancing fully -- from something less than a full frame to not at all!

I'd be curious to hear from someone with a working XA to hear if the teeth are working properly and if the metal/plastic spindle connection seems more solid. I've found that a very tightly wound roll of film with a very loose felt light trap allows me to use the camera without losing frames (or at least *so far*); however, this is obviously a less than ideal solution.

chenick · 03-07-2006

I have almost exactly the same problem, I had several overlapping frames in the last 2 or 3 films. However, the sprockets in my XA turn fine with the thumbwheel, with no slippage.
My problem seems to be as in your point 2) the outer spindle is slipping too easily.

I'm thinking perhaps the light seals are a bit too thick (looks like they were replaced with thick neoprene but I presume the main problem is the outer spindle slippage. I hope someone has a fix, I've done lots of searches on this to no avail.

Nick

filmgoerjuan · 03-22-2006

I think I've figured out the issue with my XA, or rather, the issue with *me* -- the XA was working properly, I have only myself to blame for the issue. I've shot a couple of rolls since posting about the problem and this time I've been extra careful about loading the film.

Make sure that the sprockets on the film are engaged by the teeth and that the film leader is securely into the slot on the take-up spindle. Most importantly, make sure there is no slack in the film before you close the cover. There's a little window cut out in the pressure plate on the back of the camera, this goes over the teeth and holds the film down enough that the teeth continue to engage the film as it is advanced. If the film isn't aligned properly or there's too much slack, the teeth won't engage the film correctly and this will result in misaligned or overlapping frames.

On the plus side, I got some good feedback on the attached "photo" from one of my failed rolls

Ballen Photo · 04-04-2006

Juan, I suspect you may be right about loading the film improperly causing the problems. I have both an XA, and an XA2 that I bought brand new back in 79. I seem to remember that you have to ensure the film is loaded just right, or else the camera will jam, etc.
BTW, I just bought batteries for them, and think I'll bring them out of retirement.

-Bruce

franx · 04-17-2006

I shoot mainly street photography and I just got an XA-2. Tomorrow I'll know how well it's working... BUT I'm really interested in an XA since it gives me far more control. Besides some great reviews on the XA page (http://www.diaxa.com/xa/xastart.htm) and other pages, I would appreciate comments regarding this little camera. Thanks a lot in advance.

www.franxvision.blogspot.com