Argh! Photo Processing Frustration

[bmattock]

Went out yesterday to take photos, armed with my classic Minolta Hi-Matic 9 and a newly-acquired Canon 110ED (a 110 film cartridge rangefinder camera). I took a roll of Ilford XP2 Super 400 ASA for the Hi-Matic, a roll of Kodak color 400 ASA for the 110.

I got lucky and happened upon a public demonstration in downtown Albuquerque - people demonstrating in favor of same-sex marriage. The organizers had equipped everyone with a drum or noise-maker of some sort, which they were all merrily banging away upon.

I shot both rolls of film, then went to have them developed. My first stop was at my local grocery store, which has one-hour processing (for 35mm color print film). That's where the fun began...

The lady behind the counter took one look at my XP2 (chromogenic B&W, uses C-41 process) and announced that she could not process it, since it was B&W. I gently tried to enducate her - showing her the 'Process C-41' markings on the cartridge. Yes, she declared, B&W required C-41, which she could not do. She could send it out for me if I desired.

I tried again, explaining that C-41 was a COLOR process, which she did every time she processed a roll of standard color print film. No, she said, if she processed the film, it would come out in B&W, not color. After all, it said B&W right on the can.

Yes, I agreed. The prints will be in B&W, but the development process is standard color processing. I showed her a box of Kodak B&W C-41 that she sold right there at her kiosk and explained that my Ilford XP2 was exactly the same. (I know it's not precisely the same, as the Ilford wants to be printed on B&W paper, and the Kodak can be printed on color paper, but I wasn't interested in the prints, just the negatives, and I didn't want to confuse the issue further). She looked very confused.

Finally, she agreed to process the roll as if it were color print film. Precisely, I agreed.

Then she asked how I wanted my SLIDES to be mounted. No, not slides, I replied. PRINTS. Just prints. No slides. This is not slide film. Stop saying slides.

Right. So did I want plastic or cardboard slide mounts?

At this point, I asked for the film back, intending to take it elsewhere.

She refused to give it back - saying that she had already opened a ticket in her computer, and now had to put something in it. I just gave up and let her keep the roll. She promised to have it back in an hour. I could have made a scene, but I was just worn down by this point.

I then drove to the local Walgreens drug store, where I had purchased the 110 film. When I purchased it, the film counter guy had told me that they still offered one-hour 110 processing, although not many people still used it.

I dropped the 110 film off - the film counter guy said come back in an hour. Fair enough.

Later, I made the rounds, trying to pick up my processed film.

First stop, grocery store. The lady there showed me a completely blank roll of negatives. Nothing on them at all. She was nearly accusatory - like she was telling me that she should NOT have processed the XP2 as color prints. See? Told ya so!

I was befuddled. When I shot the roll of 35mm, I was certain that the film was advancing - I could see the rewind lever rotating as I advanced the film. I know I did not leave the lens cap on the camera (possible with rangefinders), since I was using the in-camera metering (but setting shutter speed and aperture manually). On the Hi-Matic 9, the meter is located above the lens, but inside the lens barrel. If the cap was on, I'd have had no metering. I was double-checking my metering with an external meter - which agreed with my camera meter, minus the filter factor (I was shooting with a yellow filter).

When I got to the end of the roll, the winder stopped mid-wind, as it usually does, as the film is under tension and there is no more slack. When I rewound, I could 'feel' the film inside the camera winding back into the cannister, just as normal.

So, unless my camera had stopped working (a possibility), it should have exposed the roll of film. I examined the roll carefully - there was literally NOTHING on it - so it was not just a case of bad underexposure. There was about 3 inches of leader, which was black, and the rest of the roll was completely clear.

I went home and checked my camera. No, it is opening the shutter and the speeds seem appropriate, aperture is working. I can open the back and look through the lens and trip the shutter - I see light through the lens. It should have been making SOME kind of exposure!

Now I am wondering what on EARTH the lady at the film counter could have done to my film to make it come out clear. If she had accidentally exposed the roll to light, it would have been black, like the leader. If she had cross-processed in C-6, it would have come out all funky, but it would have come out. They don't do standard B&W processing there, so what happened?

Anyway, after this disaster, I went back to the local Walgreens. At least I'd have my 110 film.

Nope. The guy looked apologetic, but it seems he had spoken too soon. Turns out he has no idea how to develop 110 film. They may be equipped for it, but he doesn't know how to do it. They sent it out. Back in three days.

Lovely. Fine day. I'm so happy.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Oldprof]

So ... did you use plastic or cardboard mounts?

[bmattock]

I'm gonna give you such a pinch!

[SolaresLarrave]

At Wally World, I gave the employee a roll of XP2 and, to my amazement, she said "We don't do Ilford here, only Kodak and Fuji."

It had been a hard day, I snapped back "you can do this, because it's C-41 color film. In fact, you've done it before for me."

She spoke to someone and the guy nodded his head. They did it in an hour.

On another ocassion, at my grocery store, they were really quick at pushing back a roll of Kodak B&W Plus saying it was black and white, and they don't do that stuff.

"But you sell this film here and you do it too!" And I grabbed a roll from their counter.

Reluctantly accepted.

I think you have a case against the lady in the first lab. She obviously played a trick on you and maliciously wrecked your film. She wanted to make a point. You should go back to the store, bring in receipts, camera, blank negs and, if necessary, put it in writing (in case they want to give you the bureaucratic runaround of "submit us a letter", although I doubt it). You're entitled, at the very least, to a roll of film. In fact, if they have done C-41 film for you in the past, and if they sell it in their premises, and if you have an extra roll showing the evidence (that it's developed in C-41 chemicals, not in Rodinal!), the manager will have to side with you. There's no need to be confrontational, simply state your case and, just to see you go, they'll "sacrifice" a roll of film of your choice to see you go happy.

Just don't return to the lab while this sweet, dumb lady is in charge. I learned to check on lab attendants after a couple of mistakes; never this bad, though, but have you seen a 35mm print the size of an APS panoramic? It looked funny. I didn't ask it redone because I was planning on scanning it. I'll tell you the story later. Sorry about your loss of unrepeatable shots, but you'll have very good luck with the manager and this witless employee!

[bmattock]

Francisco,

Sorry to hear about your Wally World experiences! I've actually had them lose a roll of my film, then lose the free replacement roll they gave me when I brought that back to be processed. I had a strong (angry) word with the store manager, he gave me a $25 USD gift certificate, which my wife used - but I won't have film developed there again. Not at THAT one, anyway. I've used other Wally Worlds that have been fine.

I agree with you, but I don't know HOW the lady could have intentionally damaged my film. If she had exposed it to light, it would have processed black, not clear. I have no idea what action she might have taken that would cause it to come out as if it had been unexposed.

And you're probably right about getting a replacement roll of film from them - but nothing they sell is really a replacement for a roll of XP2, and I don't really care enough to invest the time to pursue it - it would cost me more in my time than it would be worth to get a roll of Kodak B&W C-41 out of them, I think.

You're right that this "sweet, dumb" lady is not going to get my trade again - I'll look out for her and bypass when she's on duty. Regardless of all else, she has obviously not been properly trained. She doesn't even know about the film they actually sell on premises, that's pretty sad.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[r-brian]

Boy Bill, you sure have trouble with film developing in ABQ. For my color print, I just use WalMart at Academy. Never had a problem. For anything else, true B&W or slides, I use Camera Graphics on Princeton, just north of Candelaria, kind of a pro lab with 3 day turn around. Not the fastest but can do what you want. For just E-6, try Carl's on Quincy St. (SW corner of San Mateo and Lomas). They specialize in only E-6 and usually only a 24 hour turn around. Definitely time for a new developing place.

Brian

[Doug]

Bill that blank film is a puzzle. You say the leader area is black, so that means the film was actually developed. A major clue, since if the leader area too was blank, this could happen if the lab simply ran the film through the bleach fix.

I suppose there are frame numbers and film identification along the strip too? Those are pre-exposed, so if visible that also points to some kind of development occurring.

So, if the film is otherwise blank, I'd say it has to point to some fault of the camera... extreme underexposure or no exposure. Somehow! My first guess would be the lens cap, but you've eliminated this possibility.

[rover]

Yeah, what Doug said. Big ????s. I will look through some of my book for trouble shooting tips. We have to be able to come up with some explaination.

[rover]

I checked my books and it sounds like you have your based covered. The film appears to be unexposed, so lens cap, or it never wound out of the canister. You indicate though that the rewind wheel turned when you advanced the film. The book does say though that if the film is 100 clearm no frame numbers of film ID then it is a sign that it was processed in the fixer prior to the developer. Not likely in an automated developing machine.

[bmattock]

Originally posted by r-brian
Boy Bill, you sure have trouble with film developing in ABQ. For my color print, I just use WalMart at Academy. Never had a problem. For anything else, true B&W or slides, I use Camera Graphics on Princeton, just north of Candelaria, kind of a pro lab with 3 day turn around. Not the fastest but can do what you want. For just E-6, try Carl's on Quincy St. (SW corner of San Mateo and Lomas). They specialize in only E-6 and usually only a 24 hour turn around. Definitely time for a new developing place.
Brian

Brian, I just got back from the Walmart at Academy! My wife and I went out and took some photos today, and I discovered that Walmart really DOES do 1-hour processing on 110 film. Here's a rough draft - 110 film, converted to B&W, Walmart's cruddy scan (I will rescan the ones I like later)...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - Camera is a Canon 110ED, a true 'rangefinder' 110 camera, complete with f2.0 lens!

[bmattock]

Hmph, that didn't upload too well. This one is slightly better. Again, 110 film...

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Doug
Bill that blank film is a puzzle. You say the leader area is black, so that means the film was actually developed. A major clue, since if the leader area too was blank, this could happen if the lab simply ran the film through the bleach fix.

I suppose there are frame numbers and film identification along the strip too? Those are pre-exposed, so if visible that also points to some kind of development occurring.

So, if the film is otherwise blank, I'd say it has to point to some fault of the camera... extreme underexposure or no exposure. Somehow! My first guess would be the lens cap, but you've eliminated this possibility.

I'm sorry to say that I didn't examine the negatives. I saw that they were blank, I looked closely enough to see that they were indeed unexposed and not just way underexposed, but I paid no attention to the frame numbers. When she asked if I wanted the negatives, I replied "What on earth for?" and left. I was a trifle ticked at the time.

I wonder if the camera shutter quit working in the cold and started working again once I got it warmed up (indoors)?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Stu :)]

Just out of curiosity... how many of you use 'professional film labs'? And if you don't what stops you?
On another forum site I visit I've noticed a lot of you guys "up north" don't use pro-labs. I hear all kinds of horror stories about Wal-Mart and numerous others. For me the sheer thought of handing my nicely exposed Velvia or Ultra over to K-Mart or The Warehouse (NZ's version of Wal-Mart I guess) sends shivers down the back of my spine. Even the nation wide camera chain that the local camera recommends gives me the willies.
For me I've been using a pro-lab for a good three years now. Sure C-41 dev. and prints costs $6-7 more than else where and a drive from the suburbs into the city. But I get what I want and their E-6 is cheap! $8NZ a pop, be it a roll of 35mm or 120, sheet of 4x5 up to 11x14. They aren’t too flash with the traditional B+W... then again I'm using Pryo and X-TOL with VitaminC, they using D-76.

Thought my last encounter with XP2 was a good one. Out of sheer curiosity I took it into the lab and said "Cross-process please"...
The girl behind the counter- Can you do that?
Me- Yes...

The Morning Shirt Lab Manger- Are you nuts?
Me- Yes...

The operator on the E-6 Machine, on the phone to me- I've got a roll of XP2 under your name in the E-6 line, don't you want C-41?
Me- No, Cross-process please...

Several more circular phone calls later they finally decided to put the XP2 through the E-6 chemistry. Two calls later they agreed to print the film onto colour reversal paper (the stuff they normally use for colour slide film).
Two days later at pick up and inspection, all of the above and then some where quite impressed.
I'd even but some pictures up myself, so all of you can go "oh-arr". But I don't own a scanner...

Now the "Please push-develop this film by seven stops" is another interesting bedtime story...

Stu

[wierdcollector]

Sorry to hear about your processing problems Bill. Nothing can ruin a fine day's photo shooting like an idiot at the 1 hour processor. My local A+P grocery 1 hour lab does 35mm, 110 and has done 120 although even the fellow behind the counter says honestly, he's only done 120 once. I had both colour and c-41 b+w done there several days ago and couldn't ask for any better results. The price is really reasonable too, approx. $5.00 plus change/roll of 24. I'll give their 110 a try today as I want to run a roll through my Rollie A110 this afternoon weather permitting. Best of luck and keep up the great work, especially the camera reviews and the "A day in.." shots.

[bmattock]

Stu;

Originally posted by Stu
Just out of curiosity... how many of you use 'professional film labs'? And if you don't what stops you?

In many cases, it is because there is no 'professional film lab' to be had locally.

I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Here, there are a couple of 'pro labs'. I've used them. But they haven't given me any better service than the one-hour shops I've used, and they're very expensive.

But I've done work on assignment (as a computer guy, not as a photographer) where there WERE NO local pro labs, period. The US is a BIG place, Stu. You can easily find yourself in towns that are 300 miles from the nearest city of 100,000 people or more, a two-hour drive from the nearest town with an airport. Walmarts are ubiquitous (sadly).

My biggest complaint about ALL labs, pro and one-hour, has been that they scratch up my negs, so when I scan them I get garbage. I've finally isolated that down to the printing process - so I usually use a one-hour lab and then ask them not to print, just process and sleeve the negs. This helps a lot, and I usually don't have the problems I had this weekend.

On another forum site I visit I've noticed a lot of you guys "up north" don't use pro-labs. I hear all kinds of horror stories about Wal-Mart and numerous others. For me the sheer thought of handing my nicely exposed Velvia or Ultra over to K-Mart or The Warehouse (NZ's version of Wal-Mart I guess) sends shivers down the back of my spine. Even the nation wide camera chain that the local camera recommends gives me the willies.
For me I've been using a pro-lab for a good three years now. Sure C-41 dev. and prints costs $6-7 more than else where and a drive from the suburbs into the city. But I get what I want and their E-6 is cheap! $8NZ a pop, be it a roll of 35mm or 120, sheet of 4x5 up to 11x14. They aren’t too flash with the traditional B+W... then again I'm using Pryo and X-TOL with VitaminC, they using D-76.

I'm doing my own B&W developing as well, although I use D-76 (grin). Again, sometimes distance is a factor, sometimes time. There are times when I am not willing to wait a week for my negs to come back - perhaps a facet of the 'we want it now' lifestyle. Until last week, I travelled for a living as well - no time when I was home only 18 hours a week.

I've had horror stories with Walmart processing as well. At the very Walmart that r-brian (a fellow RFF participant and Duke City resident) says he goes to, I have had them lose one roll out of eight I turned in for processing, then they lost the replacement roll they gave me when I turned THAT in for processing. I haven't gone in there much since then for that reason - but this weekend I found out that they do process 110 in one hour, so I thought I'd give them a try again.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[taffer]

well I remember the first time I asked for a push processing...

the girl behind the desk was not the usual one, and she had just begun working there...

but I'll always remember her "p.. p ..push!?"

or when I left a slide roll for 1 hour processing in fotoprix in barcelona, and was asked "what size?"

after letting her know that it was a slide roll I left, just to hear how she was asking another employee something like "this is for the negatives machine, no ?"

and that made me feel that thing on my spine too...

[pshinkaw]

I use a pro lab for 120 film and enlargements (120 and 35mm), although I am trying to use an Epson 960 for some of my enlarging needs.

Almost all of my 35mm color negative goes to Walgreens, as does the film from the rest of my family (wife and two daughters). We spend about $200 month just in color negative processing at Walgreen’s. As a result they are very nice and very responsive to us.

Walgreen’s currently used a German made automated processor (their house brand of film is re-packaged Agfa), but the managers have told me that they are all getting Fuji Frontier machines sometime in 2004. I specifically asked our local store manager if she would try to get a 120 adapter and cassette for the Frontier so she can develop my C-41 rollfilm. We’ll see if that happens. Currently, they have a lot of maintenance issues and downtime. Experienced operators are very important. If the operators are idiots, go somewhere else.

Walgreens’ goofs up sometimes too, they vary a lot from store-to-store. You have to develop a working relationship with the people there. If I have a lot of rolls at one time and if they are important, like a family reunion, I will split the order and do half on each trip, just to better my odds.

I have tried Eckerd’s which is pretty much like Walgreens as well as the local grocery store and Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is pretty good, but it’s worth your life to get in and out of the parking lot. I try to avoid them.


Then again, thgere are days when it's just not worth trying get anything developed. Nothing goes right on those days.

-Paul

[lars]

AFAIK, the nearest pro lab is about 1 hr away so even if I weren't so cheap, I'm too lazy to go there.

I used to use Costco but I've never been that picky...until I tried Save On (a huge supermarket chain here in British Columbia). The prints were way better. Then I tried my local camera store and was amazed at the quality.

Costco charges around $3 or 4 per 24 exp. Save On, $5. Reid's Fotosource, $10, or $7 if I leave it with them for 2 days. (All prices in Canuck bucks)

I'll probably end up using Reid's for all my film printing now, but the $10 for 1 hr processing is tough to swallow. BTW, Save On does outstanding work at times but as many of you have already mentioned, it depends on the machine operator. FWIW, Reid's is using a Frontier and printing on Fuji Crystal Archive. Save On is an Agfa shop.

My main complaint is that none of the local places can scan/print from a medium format neg...they just send it out and get internegs (ie: 35mm negs!!!) made and then print.

...lars

[bmattock]

Lars and All:

I've noticed that sometimes people who are getting traditional prints made think that because the prints come out nicely, there is no problem with local one-hour labs. I've experienced that myself - nice prints, no problems with 4x6 or whatever.

The problem for me is that I usually scan my negs - on a fairly new Minolta Dual Scan III (2820 dpi). It picks up dust on the negs and I have to deal with that (of course I clean my negs carefully to minimize that), but what really gets me crazy is the scratches and emulsion damage.

You don't see it on a standard print, especially an optical (as opposed to some of the new digital) enlargement. Scratches on the neg are minimized due to the scattering of light - they become too minor for the human eye to see without magnification.

But put those negs in a scanner and see what you get! I understand dust, I understand horizontal scratches (possible dust in the camera can damage the emulsion), but vertical and diagonal scratches? Massive emulsion lifting in big splotches? Fingerprints? These all come out under high-resolution scanning, and they take a really long time to fix in Photoshop, even assuming that they can be fixed at all.

I know that they are not ALL like that. For example, when I develop my own B&W in D-76, they come out beautifully scratch-free. My work as a photographer and developer could stand some improvement, but the negs at least scan clean as a whistle, so I know it's possible!

I've also seen (via scanning) that if I request NO PRINTS when I drop off my negs, even at a one-hour place, they are much less scratched up when I get them back (as good as or even better than some of the pro shops I've used). So again, it is possible to get fairly scratch and damage free negs from a commercial processor.

I don't think I'm being too picky, but the standards for what is 'clean' are being raised by consumer technology. There was a time when casual or careless neg handling by one-hour shops would probably not cause massive problems with standard 4x6 glossy prints, unless they threw the negs on the floor and walked on them or something. But now more people are scanning their negs as I do, and we're not necessarily pro photographers, but we demand a higher standard in handling our negs to avoid damage.

One-hour processing place employees used to wear white cotton gloves when handling negs - I haven't seen them doing that in a long time. Some of them don't even know to handle the negs by the edges - and they don't get it reinforced, because again, the average consumer doesn't see the damage in their 4x6 prints, so who cares?

For most consumers, it's the print that they want - the negative is simply a byproduct of the processing experience. In my case (and I'm sure in many others), it is the negative that is the product - that's what we want safeguarded and protected. The print is incidental - in my case, I don't even want it. I suspect that as time goes on and film slowly gives way to digital, the remaining film users will be either technophobe hold-outs, too poor to move to digital, or like me, cranks with a need to be different. We won't want the prints - just the negs, please, and without scratches.

Here is an example from the local Walmart from yesterday's photo-shoot. Notice the vertical cut into the emulsion? The frame is landscape, so that did NOT happen in the camera. I'll post a couple of small blowups showing the even smaller (would be invisible on prints) damage.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[bmattock]

Here's a crop (actual size) of a pair of boots belonging to a fighter I was photographing. You can see the damage to the emulsion here. Fortunately, the major damage is in the grass, which could be cloned fairly easily in Photoshop. When it is on a face, however, it's nearly impossible to fix (at least with the skills I have).

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Doug]

I use a lab based an hour's drive away, and they offer two levels of service; regular and "pro". They have branch stores, one in my town, that do the non-pro level work locally. But 120 or 220 always requires the "pro" level and is sent to the main lab.

In the local lab, the Agfa manchinery is right out in the open behind the counter, not enclosed or protected from junk blowing in or brought in or simply floating around. The lab manager, before feeding a roll of negs into the printing machine, typically wipes the film lengthwise with a cleaning rag. And, yeah, I've seen longitudinal scratches in my 35mm negs, surely as a result.

I have begun asking for "Pro" processing on my 35 stuff now as well as the 120/220. A side benefit is that at the pro processing level, a CD full of scans is only $1.50 extra, much cheaper than the extra CD with non-pro processing. This nicely offsets the extra cost of the pro processing. Further, I've found 35mm "pro" scans are of higher resolution, one scan per image, versus 5 scans per image all of lower and decreasing resolutions.

Still, there seems to be more dust and lint on the negs than I like.

[Doug]

For enlargements and reprints, I've become nervous about trusting my irreplaceable negs to the tender mercies of the lab. This is where scans can be useful. I now take the relevant scans to the local lab and they print from those rather than the negs. Actually, I think they send the scan media to the main lab where they have equipment that can print directly from that.

Since my wife's digital camera uses Compact Flash cards, we have a CF reader for the computer. After editing the scans I want to print (levels, color, cropping, rotating, spotting), I copy them to a CF card and take that to the lab.

Now they have a new and clever machine (with customer access) that makes it even easier. This is like a computer touch-screen on top of a box that has readers for various digital media from CDs to Memory Sticks. You insert your media, use the touch-screen menus, and the machine uploads your images to the computer in the main lab an hour away. It spits out an invoice, you pay the cashier, and your prints arrive the next day. Pretty slick!

However, the gals at the local lab were flabbergasted to learn I'd written the digital images TO the CF card FROM the computer... They had never thought of doing that, and didn't even know it was possible. :-)

[Kris]

This may be a naive question. Why don't you take your films to a pro lab? That solves the problem of having your slide developed in C-41 or your C-41 B&W in D-76.

Pricewise, my pro lab does processing and printing cheaper than those One Hour Labs, but takes 48 hrs. Slide processing however is done in less than 3 hours.

I'm from Melbourne, AU by the way so my case may not be valid anywhere else.

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Kris
This may be a naive question. Why don't you take your films to a pro lab? That solves the problem of having your slide developed in C-41 or your C-41 B&W in D-76.

Pricewise, my pro lab does processing and printing cheaper than those One Hour Labs, but takes 48 hrs. Slide processing however is done in less than 3 hours.

I'm from Melbourne, AU by the way so my case may not be valid anywhere else.

Kris,

Welcome! Your question is not naive, but there we've discussed some of these same issues in this thread. To summarize:

* Some of us don't have access to a pro lab.
* Some pro labs damage negs just like the one-hour shops.
* Pro labs can be expensive.
* Pro labs take more time - and some of us are impatient!

Here in Albuquerque, New Mexico, there are only a couple of 'pro labs' and they typically take three days. And I've had my negs scratched just as badly as I have at the one-hour places. They know about it, I've complained until I'm blue in the face - the problem is that when you look at a typical 4x6 print, you don't see any damage - looks fine. But when you scan the neg, you often do see a great deal of damage. It's not that they've gotten worse at processing negs (perhaps they have), but rather that the bar's been raised, because more people scan their negs now, and thus reveal the damage that was always there.

The rest of this reply is meant for others, not Kris (Kris, you can disregard this)...

To answer some similar questions from others here - I could send out my negs to a top-end really, really, pro shop. And if I had a roll of film that was something I felt was worth it, I would do so. But I'm still learning this craft/hobby, and hey, my negs are mostly dross. But if there is a problem with my photographic skills, let it be due to my mistakes, not having to wade through the scratches and pits and whatnot that the lab put on the negs.

My negs thus far aren't particularly precious - most are not of once-in-a-lifetime events or what have you. Most of them are just average shots of things I've seen and liked. Not really reproducible, but I can live with that - assuming that *I* was the one who flubbed the shot. What galls me is the damage done to the negs in a typical one-hour shop.

As I've mentioned, I've manage to make the problem MOSTLY go away by asking them not to print the negs - that seems to be where most of the damage occurs. And this method has been working for me. But not when they have semi-trained monkeys manning the counter.

But I keep hearing advice like this - if your Chevy is naff, you should drive a Rolls-Royce. Uh huh. You send me one, and we'll be good to go. I'll be waiting by the mail box.

Imagine if I rephrased your statement like this - assume that every time I went into a hamburger fast-food joint, I got nasty food, bad service, and so on. You could advise me to only eat at top-end restaurants, but perhaps I can't afford that. Perhaps I only have a half-hour to eat lunch and Luigi's down the street can't grill their calimari that fast - so it's fast food hell or nothing.

You might advise me to cook at home and bag my lunch, but perhaps I'm a terrible cook, or just don't have time to do it myself. Again, I'm back to the fast-food hell-hole.

So, should I just stop complaining that some fast-food is not so good? Or should I demand a minimum level of service, even from fast-food joints? No, they don't give me a checkered linen tablecloth, but it's not too much to ask that the food be hot, fresh, and well cooked.

Same for one-hour photo joints. There are many good reasons to use them, and even though they're not the top of the town, they should provide a minimum of service and quality for what they charge.

Just my two cents worth, anyway...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[bmattock]

Geez, I just re-read my last post. That sounded like I was bitching at users here - I'm not!!! Sorry, I think I should have a smoke and settle down - you guys are the greatest, really!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks