M8- Gettin' a Grip on it

[TS ISAAC]

There are some older posts here, going back to last Sept., talking about the missing winding lever on the M8, even before the camera was released. Now, with a few months of M8 use behind me, I find I really do miss of the film advance levers of my M4 and M6. It was not that the film advance lever prevented me from dropping the camera, but rather, it helped position my hand in the same place each time I prepared to shoot. Comments are most encouraged on this point.

With the M8, particularly in humid conditions, I find I don’t quite get that repeatable positioning of my hand. It slips around just a bit too much. The Sling certainly looks like the most secure of all compact systems, but, when it’s hot and wet, I would be inclined to try something else. Since I am always using my neck strap, I am not worried about dropping my camera, I just want a more secure and repeatable feel, each time I get ready compose a shot. (Now if I could figure out that composition thing………)!

The Leica grip allows an excellent hold on the camera, but that barrel arrangement for my fingers is awkward. When pressing the shutter release and holding the grip, well, it seems my fingers just don’t bend that way! I also find I want something more compact.

With these options considered, I figured I would try a thumb grip design of my own. I have designed castings and injection molded parts for many years, so I am settling on a die-cast design in brass, as both practical and durable, and esthetically matched to the M8. I love the lines of this camera, even its thicker body, and don’t want to detract from the traditional shape the Leica designers preserved so well. But I do want a better and more consistent hold of my M8 when taking photos.

To start, I completely modeled my M8 with 3D software, to build a reliable design platform on which my Thumbs Up grip idea could take shape. That exercise was a real hoot, backing into the M8 design with a clean slate, so to speak. But this virtual method is a great way to manage the precision and the tolerances required to make the part I want, as well as managing the ergonomics and esthetics of the shape on the camera. Brass is the material I am using on my real prototype and it will be painted black.

Another design feature I am considering to include is a slot for an SD card, with a 3rd hand function in mind, while changing out the cards. One of these days I figure I am going to drop an SD card into some water, or worse, down into a hole somewhere. The slot will hold a card for those few seconds needed while a new card is being handled.

Please have a look at the JPEGS of my design on flickr. Stay tuned for the tests of the first Thumbs Up prototype! In the meantime, I most certainly welcome any ideas or comments, good or bad, from the members here. Perhaps I will make more than just one!

[Joe Mondello]

Tim, I think it's brilliant. Kudos.

[erikhaugsby]

That looks fantastic--where do you plan on fabricating them?

(I love how you put a 28 on the camera and not a 35 or 50 )

[2001alal]

really nice design
hope we can get one lol

[Tony C.]

I absolutely love your design, and would like very much to buy one if and when they become available. Please keep us posted!

Regards,

Tony C.

[ywenz]

awesome model! As far as the design goes, I think the permanently protruding grip will make the camera painful to use when it's dangling in front of the chest.

[2001alal]

Originally Posted by ywenz

awesome model! As far as the design goes, I think the permanently protruding grip will make the camera painful to use when it's dangling in front of the chest.

not at all ywenz
i can see where one might think that
the camera is pretty well balance when its hanging from your neck
and from what i can see if the curve for the thumb is done right it can be comfortabe as a sulpture & industrial designer i beleave he has a winner
lets encourage these ideas
where behind you TS ISAAC

[Tikerz]

Absolutely brilliant!

[TS ISAAC]

Ywenz,
To get a feel for the chest poking factor, something I am also not too keen on, I modeled one up with paper laminations. Not too pretty, but dimensionaly correct. What fun that was, sort of cut and paste excercise. But, turns out, it is does not poke at all, its a smallish thing, and the close up views make it look bigger than really is. Key point for me is the hand position on the camera, and that aspect of it feels good.

[haagen_dazs]

dont forget to patent the design !!!

[arcbenson]

Tim,
My uncle's office does digital prototyping for industrial designers.
You can just send him your 3D model and he can make you a prototype (SLA laser rapid-prototyping), then make a die or mold or whatever to mass produce it.
This is a great idea, why not make it real?

[TS ISAAC]

Arcbenson,
Thanks for the offer of your Uncles facilities! The current SLA rapid prototyping technology sure is amazing.

However, I have chosen a different prototyping route. I will make my first piece using a CNC machine from brass billet. This way I can get a feel for the real deal. Weight, texture, balance and finish all play an important roll with a part that you will eventually touch with your hands.

Rapid Prototyping gives you an accuarate shape for sure, but the other characteritics somethines can go missing. I very much appreciate your enthusiam for my idea!

The first piece should be complete in about a week!

[Xmas]

Patent void after publication...

Noel

[HansRoggen]

Nice design and a great idea. What is the grey part for?
And doesn't this put too much stress on the flash shoe?

Hans

[laptoprob]

Wouldn't brass be too heavy? Is aluminium too soft?
Great modeling work and nice idea!

[kbg32]

find a way to make the shoe useable as well and you have a great product.

[TS ISAAC]

Hans Roggen and Laptoprob,
I appreciate the excellent questions and observations. A good example why this RangeFinderForum is such a good place to propose ideas.

The weight of the Thumbs Up in brass will be 35.5 grams or 1-1/4 ounces. This brass alloy is the same as is used to form the base plate and upper cap on the M8 body.
It is tough and durable and not prone to gall as aluminum. Aluminum would weigh less, but the feel is not the same as brass, at least to me. If die cast in aluminum the weight would be about 14 grams.

The flash shoe frame is designed and attached to the body in such a way as to absorb the shock conveyed from striking an attached flash unit on something solid. Most flash units are longer than my Thumbs Up, and could exert considerably more torque. One of the purposes of making a prototype is to test these design characteristics and my M8 is the test platform. Yikes!

Under normal use, the forces genreated by the hand and thumb are mostly compression into the body of the camera, not the flash shoe frame. If you are like me, you support the weight camera with your left hand under the lens.

There is no gray part on my Thumbs Up. You might be seeing a reflection from the
lighting I subjected the 3D model to in simulation to make it look 'cool'. If we are talking about the same thing, then that 'gray" area, provides an opening for an SD card, to act as a sort of third hand or holder while changing out SD cards. It is used only when the camera is upside down, and the bottom plate removed.

Please have a look at my flickr and you can see more photos of that detail.

Here is one photo of how the SD card holder will work. I figured I am overdue to drop one of those cards, and maybe loose it, so I thought I would try to design in some prevention method.

[Robert]

Thats some job, very professional.

[dazedgonebye]

Originally Posted by Robert

Thats some job, very professional.

Yea, if you're not making your living at this sort of thing, I think it's a waste of talent.

[Fin]

Yowza!! - I don't know what impresses me the most - the product, or your CAD skills!
Aesthetically, I think your design is bang on the money - simple, elegant and functional (like a Leica M, in fact!). I agree with the choice of brass as well - The first thing that shrieks "quality" when you first handle a Leica M, in my opinion, is the weight to size ratio along with that indefinable 'feel'. The use of brass for this accessory would maintain that 'feel'.
Having given us a taster - I hope you realise that you are going to be bombarded with requests for updates regarding prototypes, testing and production!
Great idea, great design - I'm buying!

Almost forgot to mention - you'll have to take care to match the finish of the top plate (black or silver) - exactly.

Good luck!

[laptoprob]

Originally Posted by kbg32

find a way to make the shoe useable as well and you have a great product.

How about adding a coldshoe on top? Or detachable via screws to be removed if one does not need an accessory shoe?

On the other hand, anything sticking out on any M camera is too much. The whole top is flat for some very good reasons.

[usccharles]

can i get your account number so i can wire you payment for my order?

what a great idea. i'm definately in.

[CameraQuest]

Originally Posted by laptoprob

How about adding a coldshoe on top? Or detachable via screws to be removed if one does not need an accessory shoe?

On the other hand, anything sticking out on any M camera is too much. The whole top is flat for some very good reasons.

cold shoe?

why not hot shoe?

just extend the contacts.

Stephen

[AusDLK]

Wonder how it'd work on my Hexar RFs...?

[usccharles]

i would buy one for my Hexar too