Is the SP worth it?

[winoto]

hello all,
i'm fairly new to RFF but my history with the nikon RFs is longer.
the problem: the high price of SP. i need support from fellow RFF members prior to plungging deep into the pockets of my wallet to justify its acquisition.

i have been lusting after this camera for a good year and a half. despite all it's benefits: six built in, color coated framelines, titanium shutter on some, non-rotating shutter speed dial, brightline illuminator, etc. i have not yet bought one purely because of its rarity here in australia and the price. Is it worth it? (sadly one SP kit just went on ebay for a just little more than the S3 kit...still self flagellating myself for it) i hope it was to one of you lot. i didn't really need the lenses.

Having never actually held one in hand and played with one, I don't know what i'm missing. I'm awaiting some enlightenment.

At the moment i have 5 pairs of perfectly good pair of eyeglasses with scratched left lens due to my nikon S rounded viewfinder. I believe (and am trying to convice my wife to believe) that the SP may solve this problem. Come to think of it, I could've bought an SP for the price of my five ruined pairs of eyeglasses!!

The titanium shutter is what i desire most? does anyone know which models SP serial numbers have these shutters? should I just have one of my nikon S converted by S. Gandy to titanium shutter? one of them certainly could use a curtain replacement.


Thanks...i appreciate your input

having said all this, it would probably only take a good user brassed black nikon SP for me to sell my soul to the seller.

[VinceC]

If you like shooting Nikon rangefinders, the SP is a major step up in usability.The S is a charming antique. The SP remains a fully functional modern camera. Other than a lack of light meter, is is on part with using a modern Leica M-series camera. Some (such as myself) would argue that it's better than an M.

Dim viewfinders are an issue. Brian has been lucky, and he may be onto something with the later finders ... the SP was criticized even during its production run for dim finders, so Nippon Kogaku may have improved the coatings toward the end.

Prices have been down on Nikon rf gear the past couple of years, making them again affordable for users.

Because they are scarce in Australia, I assume they would hold their local resale value there. You could get an SP off EBay and, if you decide it's not your cup of grog, you could probably resell it for very little if any loss.

EDIT: The SP will scratch your glasses, too. I know from experience. Get some O-ring material to glue on it. The back of the finder is comparable to a plain-prism Nikon F -- it is a flat metal plate. It's not as bad as the Contax or Kiev, but I use an SP/S3 daily, and my glasses are scratched.

[VinceC]

Yes. I need to glue some felt on. I spent a few years not taking many pictures. When I started back up again about 18 months ago, I rediscovered what it's like to need a new pair of glasses every year.

[MikeL]

Nikon S2 user. Not hard to tell which eye I use......

[VinceC]

The S2 is wicked with its sharp circle. The S3/SP are much more gentle. They mainly scratched off the antireflective coating from glasses in about that same location (yes, my camera lenses convinced me, long ago, to always get multicoating).

[xayraa33]

get an SP if it is your hearts desire.
a Leica M4-P has framelines for 28mm to 135mm lenses and can be bought much cheaper, but it is not a Nikon SP and the Leica is too logical.
when you hanker for an SP, only an SP will do.

[VinceC]

Leica M's don't handle the longer lenses as well because the viewfinder image is reduced. If you wear eyeglasses, an SP finder allows you to very easily frame 28 to 135 lenses without struggling.

[rbsinto]

I'll pass, thanks.
As digital becomes the norm and film retreats into a niche market, the cost of film gear, especially manual focus film gear has come down a great deal. Even Leica bodies can be purchased relatively inexpensively. However, the lenses are still a King's Ransom, which is another reason why I'll stick to Nikon for my rangefinder and SLR gear.

[Tom A]

Originally Posted by rbsinto

I'll pass, thanks.
As digital becomes the norm and film retreats into a niche market, the cost of film gear, especially manual focus film gear has come down a great deal. Even Leica bodies can be purchased relatively inexpensively. However, the lenses are still a King's Ransom, which is another reason why I'll stick to Nikon for my rangefinder and SLR gear.

The problem here lies in the fact that the Leica lenses are usable on the RD-1 and the M8. The lenses are snapped up by the owners of these. The Nikkors in S-mount are still bought by filmusers (or those of us who have Orion or Orion copy adapters). The good news with this is that Nikkor Rf lenses are getting relatively cheap compared to Leica M and LTM mount lenses.
As for buying a 2005 SP - my only reason for getting one was to get the 35f1.8 that comes with it. Once I got that lens, my desire for the SP 2005 subsided considerably ( it is not completely gone though!). The S3's that I have get more use than the SP's. My black S3 Millenium is one of the smoothest cameras I have ever had. The release is so soft and quiet that sometimes I wonder if it even released!
I am mainly a 21/35/50 user and the S3'x covers that nicely. Once you have all the framelines dialled in on a SP - it looks like a videogame! When I use a longer lens on the Nikon's it is the 105 that I grab and the S3 has good frames for that.

[VinceC]

I'm near-sighted and nowadays use bifocals. I think the Nikon RFs work well with glasses, other than the scratching issue, which can be resolved with glued felt or stick-on felt.

I've never felt a desire to use diopters, because I need my glasses to see everything else, so I really only take them off at the end of the day.

[BillBingham2]

I use my Leica M6 as my main camera because I have a wider range of lenses choices than on my S2. Now it must be said, I got my S2 about a year and a half ago and love it. I am lusting for an SP or S3, but finances are dry for awhile (about another year) so I will enjoy what I have.

I have a 105/2.5 and 85/2 in LTM and love them. Automatic parallax correction is a WONDERFUL thing for longer lenses. The SP led the world there. While I have never used an SP, being able to dial the correct frame line for the lens you want is way better than sharing between a wide and a long lens. I hate seeing a 135 frame line when I am using a wide angle lens.

As my S2 carry kit is a CV 25/4, Nikkor 50/1.4 and Nikkor 105/2.5, moving to an SP is not a pressing issue for me. My 25 requires an external finder, even on the SP and I have a brightline finder for my 105.

I think I will be sitting around waiting for a new SP to come down in price (read sitting around a LONG time).

Remember, your mileage may vary.

B2 (;->

[ZivcoPhoto]

Winoto

There are still some very nice, original SPs to be gotten. I bought one on that big auction site last week from a buyer I have had previous dealing with. Not only did I get a cosmetically very nice camera, but it is a mid production run model with cloth shutter and a very bright viewfinder with excellent rangefinder patch....on par or better than either of my S2s which work swell.

So I would not discount buying a used SP just yet.

After several years experience with S2s I would have to say the SP is a must for multiple lens shooters. I find the mini viewfinder for 28 and 35 a pleasure to use instead of a viewfinder mounted on top of the camera.

Not only are the viewfinders and rangefinder patch bright and easy to use but the other mechanics work as they are supposed to..including self timer. So this used purchase was a home run....I was lucky.

As the NikonHS webmaster states...many people who have used Nikon F or Nikon RF cameras wear glasses and don't have glass scratch problem.

I wear glasses all the time and I have never scratched a pair of glasses on any Nikon I have ever used (since mid '60's).

[VinceC]

My glass-scratch problem is caused more by the S3 than the SP. I like to use the S3 with a 28mm lens and so am always pressing my glasses hard up against the viewfinder.

[VinceC]

>>A 28 finder would also be a huge improvement for you<<

I'm too set in my ways at this point. I have a truly wonderful CV 25/4 lens with one of the best viewfinders ever, but I don't like using a separate viewfinder. So I still mostly use the 28mm lens, about half the time on an SP, half the time on an S3 (I used my SP for black and white and my S3 for color, mostly ... no reason, just the way I do it).

[awilder]

I breifly owned the 2005 SP kit but returned it to the dealer for a few reasons:

1.) Lens mounting on the 35/1.8 was not as fast as my Leica M as you must remember to reset the camera's focus wheel and lens to infinity for proper rf coupling.
2.) My sample although new, had the 1/30 speed a stop slow measuring 1/15 instead of 1/30.
3.) I prefer a built in meter as I shoot mostly slides and don't feel like using an external meter.
4.) 35/1.8 not very sharp by todays standard. Needs to be stopped down to at least f/2.8 or f/4 before performance is decent. Contrast to the new 50/1.4 on the 2000 S3 which is the best 50/1.4 Nikon's ever made and is only beat by a small degree by the 50/1.4 asph. Summilux.
5.) Like the old Nikon F, the shutter release is set closer to the rear and slightly less comfotable in location for my finger.

Fit and finish is outstanding on the SP 2005 especially the black enamel.

[rbsinto]

I've worn glasses (as I am nearsighted) for many years, and have progressed to the stage where I now wear bifocals. Over the years I've tried contact lenses, custom ground prescription lenses that fit into Nikon diopter corrector screw-ons, as well as the more mundane, just wear my glasses when shooting.
Everything else I tried had drawbacks, and simply wearing my bifocals when I shoot seems to work very well, regardless whether I'm using SLR's or my S3. On the SLR's I have rubber-ringed screw in lenses on the cameras, and nothing on the S3. However so far, I've not scratched my left eyeglass lens, so may just leave the S3 viewfinder alone.

[xayraa33]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

You just don't like Nikon RF... what I am amazed by is that a dealer would take a camera of this type back, this is what I really hate these days about credit card sales. Your camera is bound to be sold [misrepresented] as new, if you kept all the packing.

I am shocked by the huge shutter error, since this camera only has two speeds, and varies exposure by slit width. If 1/30 was so far off, everything would be off. Sounds like you got a really awful example. I have never seen an F or SP off like this, something really dreadfully wrong in assembly, or the previous owner did something.

maybe it was one of the first reissue Sp's , as the assemblers had to learn how to do it , as the original SP assemblers have long retired or are now ashes in an urn.

[NIKON KIU]

Originally Posted by xayraa33

get an SP if it is your hearts desire.
a Leica M4-P has framelines for 28mm to 135mm lenses and can be bought much cheaper, but it is not a Nikon SP and the Leica is too logical.
when you hanker for an SP, only an SP will do.

To you the Leica may be logical but this is the Nikon forum, the Leica is not logical at all...everything turns the wrong way,the lenses have the engraving in the wrong place, the lens realease is in the wrong place
Shall I go on?

Kiu

[xayraa33]

I do use an S2 Kiu.

[MikeL]

The bottom falls off when the back should?

[wes loder]

Some peopel find the positon of the release set to the rear of the deck to be uncomfortable.
If you place your index finger on the release and your middle finger on the focus wheel, it is not that unnatural.
Remember, all the Leicas prior to the M3 also had the release to the rear, as did the many Leica copies. Since the Nikon's internals are almost pure Leica, the placement of the release makes sense. From a mechanical point-of-view, it makes even more sense. The shutter release is connected to a rod that goes directly through the advance spocket wheel shaft. The shutter is actually released in the bottom of the camera. Mechanically simple and reliable. Moving the release to the front of the deck requires an additional linkage and would place the fingers of the right hand too close together for the "1-2-3-shoot" operation. Cheers, WES LODER

[winoto]

wow, thank for the advice everyone. especially advice on something simple for protecting my glasses from the grinding nikon S viewfinder.(thank you nikonhswebmaster) an easy solution that has eluded me all this time. will have to go to the hardware store tomorrow.

after reading this thread, i feel more inclined to invest in an SP for ease of use with multiple lenses when travelling/shooting mostly wide angle lenses. rather than carrying 3 RFs (2x nikon S loaded with B/W and one S2 with color) when travelling, i can just carry an SP and one other. i've been keeping an eye out for a good Biogon 21/4.5 or CV 25/4....as well as an SP.

and as vince said, if i don't like it, i'm sure another aussie would not hesitate to buy one off me.

[dexdog]

somebody has a 21/4.5 SC for sale in the classifieds. If it is the same formula as the 21m CV in LTM, it is a great performer for the money. I tested the 21mm Biogon in Contax mount against the 21CV in LTM, and the CV exhibited better resolution, while the lenses were about equal in flatness of field and contrast.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by winoto

hello all,
i'm fairly new to RFF but my history with the nikon RFs is longer.
the problem: the high price of SP. i need support from fellow RFF members prior to plungging deep into the pockets of my wallet to justify its acquisition.

i have been lusting after this camera for a good year and a half. despite all it's benefits: six built in, color coated framelines, titanium shutter on some, non-rotating shutter speed dial, brightline illuminator, etc. i have not yet bought one purely because of its rarity here in australia and the price. Is it worth it? (sadly one SP kit just went on ebay for a just little more than the S3 kit...still self flagellating myself for it) i hope it was to one of you lot. i didn't really need the lenses.

Having never actually held one in hand and played with one, I don't know what i'm missing. I'm awaiting some enlightenment.

At the moment i have 5 pairs of perfectly good pair of eyeglasses with scratched left lens due to my nikon S rounded viewfinder. I believe (and am trying to convice my wife to believe) that the SP may solve this problem. Come to think of it, I could've bought an SP for the price of my five ruined pairs of eyeglasses!!

The titanium shutter is what i desire most? does anyone know which models SP serial numbers have these shutters? should I just have one of my nikon S converted by S. Gandy to titanium shutter? one of them certainly could use a curtain replacement.


Thanks...i appreciate your input

having said all this, it would probably only take a good user brassed black nikon SP for me to sell my soul to the seller.

Considering the fact that a new SP will cost about as much as a new Leica M8 and that the SP will last for at least 50 years whereas the M8 will last for considerably less....

You tell me, (provided your kids won't starve) is the SP "worth" it?

[Rob Skeoch]

Is it possible to buy the 35mm lens that usually sells with the new SP or are they only available as a package?
-Rob Skeoch