Buyer beware of M8

[spersky]

Here is the link:


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...7-worked.shtml


Four failed Leica M8's in an Arctic expedition. I think 2 of the cameras even failed before they even left Buenos Aries. This is a scarey prospect considering it cost 5k for the camera. The Canon 1ds Mark 2's died in the rain and started to work after drying out. The Leica camera could not even work to get out of the airport.


If the Leica M8 is marketed as a pro camera. I feel sorry for those pros.

Regards,
Steve

[JohnM]

The way I read it, only one Leica was DOA and one had some issues with a battery connection. Six 1Ds' died in the rain - only three came back and three stayed dead. Add to that three 5Ds and a couple of Rebels to Canon's body count - that seems awfully high.

[Sailor Ted]

You got your facts wrong- perhaps you should re-read the article.

PS. I love my M8. It works flawlessly and delivers exceptional image quality in the user interface I demand- that of a true RF camera. The fact is if I had to choose between shooting a heavy DSLR or a film RF I'd choose the film camera- and I dislike shooting film compared to the digital images from my M8. If it were not for the M8 I doubt seriously I'd be that into photography as I can't stand the SLR interface and I like even less big and heavy DSLR's. This for me is a personal issue but for anyone else who prefers the range finder experience and wants to shoot digital the M8 is a god send.

[spersky]

Maybe they all should have packed their gear better.

[jlw]

Originally Posted by spersky

Maybe they all should have packed their gear better.

Agreed. And I was interested to note that if anybody on the trip was shooting film, it apparently didn't merit a mention on Luminous Landscape.

If you'd been on that trip and had, say, a Zorki and a half-brick of film stashed in your underwear bag, think what you could have gotten for it (the Zorki, not your underwear!) from one of those people with drowned EOSae...

[terrycioni]

Originally Posted by spersky

Here is the link:


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...7-worked.shtml


Four failed Leica M8's in an Arctic expedition. I think 2 of the cameras even failed before they even left Buenos Aries. This is a scarey prospect considering it cost 5k for the camera. The Canon 1ds Mark 2's died in the rain and started to work after drying out. The Leica camera could not even work to get out of the airport.


If the Leica M8 is marketed as a pro camera. I feel sorry for those pros.

Regards,
Steve

Steve,

I read the LL article earlier - having read you comments here I went back and re-read it. I am wondering out loud if you read it given the thread you have started here.

Frankly I am far more concerned about my 5D then I am about the M8s. The M8 FUD continues on RRF.

Aw well. Terry.

[TJV]

Considering I had three M8's either die, button goe toe up or bands ruining otherwise good images, this does not surprise me. Most of all though, I'm amazed that anyone actually believes ANY digi camera SHOULD come back alive from a trip to the SP. It seems these people are just fooling themselves. The words "hope" and "faith" are appropricate words for any digi camera user who likes to see a bit of wilderness. Besides, how long would a charge last on a lithium Ion battery in sub freezing temps?

[Artichoke]

I used the M8 during a wet 15 degree F night in Nashville recently
the camera worked perfectly & I was surprised that the battery remained at full charge despite my taking about 40 shots
I gave out before the camera did

[erikhaugsby]

Originally Posted by Artichoke

I used the M8 during a wet 15 degree F night in Nashville recently...I gave out before the camera did

15 degrees? 15 degrees above 0, correct? That's almost as warm as a Minnesota summer!


geeze....

[grduprey]

My M8 has been working fine in the cold. We have had zero F as the high here this winter 9 good part of the winter it has been -10 F with several -19 days and the M8 has worked just fine out in the cold and wet weather, even after sitting in the carinthe cold for over 8 hours.

[masters]

I love my M8, even though I'm waiting for it to come back from repair. As a professional who relies on a camera on a daily basis i would like to say that the M8 is a camera that a professional can use wihout hesitation but it isn't. My livelihood is-about being able to capture an image and I expect that my camera system will work without fail on a daily basis. Granted i am in the studio, but if it were the M8 I had to rely onon a daiy basis would be certainly shooting RDP III and giving that to my clients instead of digital files.

[plummerl]

Ok, so the M8 failure rate was only 50% .

I would love to get an M8, but if I was headed to Antartica (granted it is summer time!), I would most likely pack film.

[Ken Tanaka]

I, too, have been impressed with the M8 battery's endurance in cold weather. I have had it out in 20F temperatures for several hours and it has maintained its charge very well...very surprising.

I am not, however, tempted to push my luck in wet weather. I had it out last week during a rather cold rain with no problems, but I didn't leave it exposed for long. The M8 is certainly not designed to withstand much rain (as noted even in the manual).

The two serious M8 issues noted by Michael seemed to have no relationship to climate conditions. They seemed like the type of power system problems many owners are reporting. I, too, recently experienced my first M8 bug when mine refused to power-up until I changed the battery (which had previously reported being 2/3 full).

That the M8, as a product, has some serious problems is neither news nor really justifiable. But I hope this doesn't start yet another M8 war campaign here. It's pointless.

[StuartR]

I think it is difficult to make any real conclusions based on a sample size of 4 cameras, the treatment of which we have no idea.

[plummerl]

Originally Posted by StuartR

I think it is difficult to make any real conclusions based on a sample size of 4 cameras, the treatment of which we have no idea.

I'm thinking how I would treat my $5000 M8.

[plummerl]

... also, an interesting video of the trip (a Lightroom commercial???):
http://schewephoto.com/Icebergs/HppyBrthdyLghtrm_2.mov

[Athena]

Originally Posted by plummerl

I'm thinking how I would treat my $5000 M8.

It is true that given all reports as to its efficacy and robustness (or lack thereof) one would be unwise to rely on said camera in such a challenging enviornment - or even more benign venues.

Nonetheless, there are those who are truly dedicated to this less-than-perfect imaging tool.

It is wiser to respect their fervor than to challenge it - for they have indeed spent the sum you've mentioned and more with little to show for it.

[IGMeanwell]

I am going to have to agree that these guys either didn't pack their gear properly or at least there was something going on not stated (possibly high humidity) that could have caused a ton of moisture.

That being said in my personal experience I have used both my Nikon D50 and D80 out in sub zero Farenheit weather with no problem. I had a shoot in January where I shot roughly 120 frames in the snow, with temps at 18 degrees Farenheit with absolutely no operation errors. Obviously I was really careful about the camera when the snow was getting heavier.... but still its bizarre how many problems they were having with equipment.

Maybe extreme temperature changes from going from a heated boat cabin to the artic weather or something to that effect. I don't think this is a manufacturer issue more than a user issue no offense the parties involved.

[Epimetheus]

I was surprised to read that so many top end cameras failed on that trip. I use my cheap DSLR (Konica Minolta Dynax 5D) and digital pocket cam (Fuji F30) all the time in great humidity and temperatures that change from -25 C (-13 F) to 35 C (95 F) and have had never any trouble even with batteries and I shoot every day of the year.

[roundg]

Nikon

There were 5 Nikon users on the trip, with various bodies – mostly D200's. There were no reports of any Nikon problems or failures.

___________

Interesting that Nikon and H2 GEARS surived.

[jaapv]

I wonder what they have been doing with their camera's I was out in the mountains for three weeks this winter, temperatures ranging from -15 centigrade to +5, weather from brilliant sun, through driving rain to heavy snow, and my M8's never even had a hiccup, despite being used continuously.

[Avotius]

Total foolishness, read this: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=34986

Digital cameras dont like cold wet weather. I know this very well. The just dont function well in it. Every single digital slr taken on that trip died, but came back to life later. Doesn't seem that the m8 was having problems from the cold in this article but then again I highly doubt anyone was doing telephoto shots with it in the rain either.

It is curious though why no one there had a film backup like a 1v or something, or at least he didnt mention it. Either way I bet shooting film out there would have been a pain in the ass too with all the wet and opening the backs of the cameras.

I seem to recall a NG article about the artic foxes. On the NG website the guy was talking about how his eos 1 series camera was breaking the film off in his camera from the cold and fast movement. He switched over to the more manual Leica R9 and did the shots. They came out great too, wonder how he coped with it.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/...geographic.com Here is the article. Click on the multimedia thing on the side.

[jaapv]

Like trying to drive Paris-Dakar in a Ferrari.....

[jlw]

Note that these guys weren't exactly schussing across the Antarctic behind a sledge, like the Scot Expedition. They were on a cruise ship. For all we know, most of the equipment failures could have been caused by falling off a bar stool.

I'm not saying they were -- only that it's risky to try to generalize statistics when you don't have all the background info.

[Kim Coxon]

Having read and re-read the article, I think it is perhaps foolish to draw any specific brand/camera conclusions from. There certainly isn't much evidence for sensationalist headings - unless of course, you are trying to troll.

What I draw from this is that a group of photogs took a group of "unprepared" cameras into extreme conditions and quite a few had problems. I remember, in the days before digital, reading an srticle about photography in such conditions. The overiding advice was that the cameras should be "prepared" for such conditions. It suggested sending the camera to the manufacturer to be stripped and re-lubed with a different grade of lubricants suitable for such cold weather. In much the same way that cars are winterised in places like Canada and northern Norway with heaters and thinner lubes in the winter.

I rather suspect that without precautions, older mechanical "pro" cameras would have had problems as did quite a few of the "pro" Canons. Now if I really wanted to stir things up, I could say that the humble Pentax K10D had a 100% record so that must be the best camera and look at the saving and the great glass you can get for it.

Kim