1st $$$ shoot with the R-D1s

[M4streetshooter]

Well, I figured a week or so is enuff time to get to know each other so I invited the Epson out to do a money shoot. Small casual affair (35-40 people)...indoors but in a high rise building with 12' tall windows on 2 sides. The other walls are decorated with prints and paintings.... The shoot required me to make candid's (geeze bummer)....and semi-formal portraits of the speakers (3) and some notables in the audience. There's a great luncheon buffet set up and an open bar.

Ok the fun stuff....I set the camera up for asa 800 and start shooting candids....getting really clost to the speaker and the people in the audience....as always with my M's...I am almost invisible.....I have the 35 Biogon on and focusing is a breeze...not the best rangefinder in the world but not bad if ya don't mind working.....

The camera is suprising me as I am shooting rapid burst of 6-8 frames and still after 2 seconds the light is off...thanks to the Lexar 2 Gig 133x card. I decided to try some flash stuff and set the shutter to 1/4, 1/8, 1/15 and bounced the 283 to get some nice blurs for the project. Flawless function from both.....time for the semi-formal portraits.....

I found a nice wall with a real nice texture and kinda faux finish to it....

I started to arrange the people in groups for the shoot and kept them about 6' away from the wall....I switched the flash on and set up for f 5.6. @ asa 200....after about 10 images I was asked to reduce to either 1 02 in the image....cool beans....I put my baby on....
ohh....50mm Summicron....perfect at about 75mm for this kinda shot....

I'm having a ball with my new camera and not even aware that I'm doing it digital.....that in itself is the single reason I will keep this camera and I sold 2 M8's

the simple fact that the machine is totally intuitive, and works like an M8 is supposed too.....

So after the shoot, I packed up and thanked everybody....

I really like ths camera.....I bought my wife's with me as a backup but never used it....she ain't getting it back either....

I opened everything in Lightroom and starting to process in PSCS2...all looks great...
all in all...a great way to make images and a real good way to make $$$$$

later don p.s. the shoot paid $1750.00

[Topdog1]

What model flash did you use for this shoot?

/Ira

[M4streetshooter]

Ira...

I used an old Vivitar 283....it's probably 25 years old but I have used it forever with my Leica's etc and it never once let me down....

[Vickko]

Good to hear that the RD1 can take the old flash

[LeicaM3]

Don,

thank you for the interesting report of your first experience with the R-D1.

Apart from the known M8 issues that we have heard enough about, how do the ergonomics compare? You made reference to the fact that the R-D1 worked like a dRF should. Would you be so kind to expand on your experience regarding the ergonomics of R-D1 and M8?


Andreas

[M4streetshooter]

Tuff question but here's what I feel....
The R-D1s has a few very strong points that I can't do without...

The flip LCD screen in absolutely brilliant....!!!! Turned in...as I keep it....Your really using a mainly manual camera.....

The viewfinder is wonderful.....both eyes open...with a 35mm...great...
For the last 3 or so years, I have been using the 50's for almost everything....
before that the 35's were on the bodies for maybe 35+ years.....

so the Eppi viewfinder with a 35 is about as good as it gets for me.....
The shutter cocking is extremely satisfying......sensual at that...get it....

the analog display is well...you know......all in all, it's a very well thought out design.
You get a very responsive camera with a very good sensor that records digital that feels like a film camera......

For the M8...well I refuse to debate that issue because too many shooters are waiting long periods to get one.....let's just say....it damn sure ain't an M4...let alone an M6, M7 or any kinda M that I ever used....and that's about all of them at one point or another.....

(this part Leica M8 guys can't read).....

in a print comparision, 12 x 18's...B&W from Millers.....if you could tell the difference...... well...I sure can't....from my 5D's, yeah, I see a difference....

to me that's the 1st problem.....and that's enuff to talk about negatively here....

[pfogle]

Good stuff, Don - I agree this camera is brilliant - I hardly ever get the 5D out now unless I need a long lens, or the client insists on big files.

I keep thinking I should get a second body, but can't quite get myself to fork out the dosh, as I'm not a working pro at the moment. Maybe next year, but then again, maybe next year there won't be any...

I just can't seem to get excited by the M8 - it's the lack of a 1:1 viewfinder, I think. Maybe if I tried it for a while...?

[M4streetshooter]

Yeah man, that finder....photography is all about seeing.....and the Eppi finder is all about seeing.....With my passion and devotion to photography and Mother Light....the money was never ever an issue...but the pure and simple esthetics of a camera always is.......mechanically, well, that's what repair shops are for.....but for making images...well...the camera has to have a real connection with the Eye, Heart and Mind.....don

[barjohn]

My vision (close up for sure) is not the greatest but I found the M8 viewfinder easier to focus with than the R-D1. I would say easier even with the 1.33x magnifier on the R-D1 and no magnifier on the M8. I think it is the difference in view finder contrast and brightness. Without the magnifier there was no contest but it was closer with the magnifier.

[Ben Z]

After years of using the .72x M bodies I find the RD-1's finder is perhaps its worst feature. My far and away "standard" lens on the M is a 35 (which is not that wide and does need careful focusing at close range and wider apertures) and to get that FOV on the RD-1 I'm forced to use a separate finder and go back and forth from the rangefinder to the viewfinder, which gets me a lot of missed shots.

Second is the fact the rangefinder area doesn't move with the parallax corrected framelines, so close-in I'm focusing off-center and recomposing more than I did with the M.

The shutter winding lever on the RD-1 to me is a nuisance. The camera is already battery dependent 100%, I'd prefer the shutter cocking as well.

Ergonomically I found the M8 as much an M as any other (I have an M4 and an M6 and had an M4-P at one time). If they didn't need those stupid filters, I would never have considered an RD-1. Image quality, yes I'm inclined to go with Don's assessment. I have not seen a single photo from the M8 so far that couldn't have been taken with just about any other digital on the market in terms of image quality.

[barjohn]

Originally Posted by Ben Z

After years of using the .72x M bodies I find the RD-1's finder is perhaps its worst feature. My far and away "standard" lens on the M is a 35 (which is not that wide and does need careful focusing at close range and wider apertures) and to get that FOV on the RD-1 I'm forced to use a separate finder and go back and forth from the rangefinder to the viewfinder, which gets me a lot of missed shots.

I don't understand this statement since the R-D1 has a 35mm frame line.

I have not seen a single photo from the M8 so far that couldn't have been taken with just about any other digital on the market in terms of image quality.

If you mean looking at web images or prints (other than possibly very very large ones) I would agree; however, on screen I can see a difference albeit a small one and only when looking at larger sizes.

[Jim Watts]

Originally Posted by M4streetshooter

Ira...

I used an old Vivitar 283....it's probably 25 years old but I have used it forever with my Leica's etc and it never once let me down....

I was interested that you use the Vivitar 283 with the R-D1. I have 5 old ones myself, but won't risk using them on the R-D1 without a Wien Safe Sync. I had an e-mail from another RFF member today about measuring flash voltages as I had noted in a post that all my 283's were high voltage, so am curious how you are using yours.

Are you using your 283 with the Wein safe sync or have you measured your 283's voltage and found it OK. http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html indicates quite a range of voltages for 283's, but most old ones are high. As I recall all mine measured over 200 volts. I was not inclined to risk anything over 25 volts straight on the R-D1.

[pfogle]

Barjohn - he means a 35mm field of view (as on a film camera), which you need a 21-24mm lens to get with the R-D1 because of the crop factor.

Ben - I gather the VF on the M8 is a 0.68 rather than 0.72 - does that make much difference in your opinion? I agree the VF on the Espon isn't fantastic, though I do like the fact that you only get one frame in the VF at a time - at the cost of a very limited set of frames! Still beggars can't be choosers (I'm definitely still a beggar - someone's gonna have to leave me something before I could consider another camera - hint )

[M4streetshooter]

Jim, don't freak me out dude....I made 650+ IMAGES AND MAYBE 1/2 WITH THE 283.....I didn't have a problem and have used the camera more yesterday and today....I don't see any problems.......ohhhh

when I was getting a shower....I used the flash and felt some tingling....maybe the voltage thinggy....so...don't use a 283 near water......just joking.......

I don't really follow the electronic conversations or theories.....maybe I should but I never had a problem......with my 5D's I have those really cool 580 something flashes....they are really nice the way they move for bouncing.....

but I couldn't get them to work with the Eppi...so I sold them to the guy that bought all the Canon stuff.......I used to carry a really small Vivitar when I went out at night on the streets.......on an M4 or whatever...it was really small and I could shoot at about 5.6-8 @ about 15' with Tri-X developed in my darkroom....

that was a great flash....now I'm on the prowl for a nice on for the eppi.....
the 283 is cool for $$$ stuff but I am mainly a streetehooter and don't care about the $$$ out there......I want something very small...just in case.....don

[Jim Watts]

Don,
I didn't mean to freak you, but Epson do advise not to use high voltage flash guns on the R-D1, as do most manufacturers of modern 'electronic' cameras. Epson are less clear about the maximum voltage that can be used, but the usual asumption is upto about 25 volts, but Canon usually recommend much less. There have been threads on this topic in this forum in the past. Still I'm glad that it hasn't given you any problems.

Maybe you have a 283 that is low voltage? As I said they did vary quite a bit and some apparently were as low as 6 or 7 volts. Mine were all over 200 volts so I wasn't going to risk frying the R-D1 circuits, using them on their own. Maybe its that the R-D1 circuits are more robust than either Epson or I give them credit for?

I like the 283's, I can use them with my Quantum power pack and they then recycle in less than 2 seconds, that and the fact that you can find them really cheaply secondhand. I don't tend to use them with either the R-D1 (with Wien Safesync) or my own M4 though as they are still a bit too large.

I had a really small & powerful Rollei flash gun that I did use until the plastic shoe broke off, a problem I have found with 283's as well (perhaps I'm too rough).

If you want a small powerful gun for both these cameras then the Metz 34 CS-2 is a good choice. I have tried a friends and it works well, but I find it hard to justify the U.K. price of about 155 GBP (about $220), as I nearly always shoot available light with these cameras. My friend brought his in the states and it was about half the U.K. price. It doesn't have a tilting head though.

Jim

[Joe Mondello]

Don, I really like your images on your website. They remind me of my own work, but better, more mature (even though I am just about your age!).

Interesting that you sold 2 M8's and like the R-D1's better. I bought the R-D1 after handling the M8 at a Photo Show last fall and itching to get another rangefinder after decades of SLR shooting.

I continue to be impressed with the quality of the images I get with the Epson.

[M4streetshooter]

Joe...thanks

it was a very tuff decision selling the M8's...I am a diehard Leica user and collector. But facts are facts and maybe with the M9 or even the M10...they willl have it right.
It's appalling to me that Mother Leica would release a camera that is having so many problems....sticking a UV filter (provided by leica) on the lens is totally unacceptable..

at any rate...the eppi holds up with the best of them and if you really nitpick...

it's really about the lens....Leica lens....well...eppi wears them just fine......

thanks..again....don

[RML]

Originally Posted by Jim Watts

Maybe you have a 283 that is low voltage? As I said they did vary quite a bit and some apparently were as low as 6 or 7 volts. Mine were all over 200 volts so I wasn't going to risk frying the R-D1 circuits, using them on their own. Maybe its that the R-D1 circuits are more robust than either Epson or I give them credit for?

I read on the Strobist blog that one of the big honchos at Vivitar told how to recognise the low voltage 283s. These have "made in Korea" or "made in China" on the flash. The ones with "made in Japan" are the high voltage 283s.

[sf]

Originally Posted by M4streetshooter

Well, I figured a week or so is enuff time to get to know each other so I invited the Epson out to do a money shoot. Small casual affair (35-40 people)...indoors but in a high rise building with 12' tall windows on 2 sides. The other walls are decorated with prints and paintings.... The shoot required me to make candid's (geeze bummer)....and semi-formal portraits of the speakers (3) and some notables in the audience. There's a great luncheon buffet set up and an open bar.

Ok the fun stuff....I set the camera up for asa 800 and start shooting candids....getting really clost to the speaker and the people in the audience....as always with my M's...I am almost invisible.....I have the 35 Biogon on and focusing is a breeze...not the best rangefinder in the world but not bad if ya don't mind working.....

The camera is suprising me as I am shooting rapid burst of 6-8 frames and still after 2 seconds the light is off...thanks to the Lexar 2 Gig 133x card. I decided to try some flash stuff and set the shutter to 1/4, 1/8, 1/15 and bounced the 283 to get some nice blurs for the project. Flawless function from both.....time for the semi-formal portraits.....

I found a nice wall with a real nice texture and kinda faux finish to it....

I started to arrange the people in groups for the shoot and kept them about 6' away from the wall....I switched the flash on and set up for f 5.6. @ asa 200....after about 10 images I was asked to reduce to either 1 02 in the image....cool beans....I put my baby on....
ohh....50mm Summicron....perfect at about 75mm for this kinda shot....

I'm having a ball with my new camera and not even aware that I'm doing it digital.....that in itself is the single reason I will keep this camera and I sold 2 M8's

the simple fact that the machine is totally intuitive, and works like an M8 is supposed too.....

So after the shoot, I packed up and thanked everybody....

I really like ths camera.....I bought my wife's with me as a backup but never used it....she ain't getting it back either....

I opened everything in Lightroom and starting to process in PSCS2...all looks great...
all in all...a great way to make images and a real good way to make $$$$$

later don p.s. the shoot paid $1750.00

You sound like an Epson salesperson. You make that RD-1s sound good!

Of course, next time, you're going to have to post some shots. We're very visual people.

[Jim Watts]

Originally Posted by RML

I read on the Strobist blog that one of the big honchos at Vivitar told how to recognise the low voltage 283s. These have "made in Korea" or "made in China" on the flash. The ones with "made in Japan" are the high voltage 283s.

RML,
I had seen this on the Botzilla data base. I have 4 marked Japan (including the broken ones kept for spares) and 1 marked China, I am pretty certain that the one I have from China measured over 200 volts as well. I can't remember, but it maybe that I measured it when connected to my Quatum Power Pack. There is a reference in the data base that someone got 261 volts on a 283 connected to one. Not sure why this should alter the trigger voltage though.

I'll have to dig out a volt meter and do a recheck sometime.

Jim

[M4streetshooter]

Well, you guys freaked me out about the 283. It won't be on the camera again but then...what to use....I don't really know which Epson suggest to use.....maybe this is another topic...hmmmm

[anglophone1]

Originally Posted by M4streetshooter

Well, you guys freaked me out about the 283. It won't be on the camera again but then...what to use....I don't really know which Epson suggest to use.....maybe this is another topic...hmmmm

Just put a Wein safe sync between the hotshoe and flash or between hot shoe and sync cord. Great for use with studio strobes too...........
Clive

[AhShun]

If my "made in Japan" works on a 20D, would it means that it will also work on RD1?

[M4streetshooter]

Originally Posted by AhShun

If my "made in Japan" works on a 20D, would it means that it will also work on RD1?

I don't think the issue is the flash working....I can gaurantee it will fire....the issue at hand is if is safe to use it on the camera.....

283/285 is kinda a waste on a DSLR...I mean afterall they have all that good syncro stuff and TTL/ETTL......

what we need is a flash as good as a 283 that's safe....The Sunpack 383 is an option but maybe there are better ones out there......

enjoy the weekend...I'm off to Brooklyn again Sat Morning.....don

[barjohn]

I purchased and used a Sunpak 383 and the voltage is safe and it worked very well.