Barnack or Zorki! which one?

[gb hill]

I'll get right to the point. I wan't a Barnack 3 c or f. I also wan't a Zorki 3 or 4m or 4k or whatever? Don't tell me to get all, please! Thats out of the question? I can already hear some of the answers...You'll not be satisified til you get a Leica! and so forth! But I took my Zorki 2c out last Saturday and I love that camera! It feels right in my hands. We bond perfectly. I just wish it had faster shutter speed.(1000).So I guess thats the bottom line of my GAS. I wan't a fast shooter. At least I think I do? I was really pleased with the pictures I got back with the Fed 2 shot on BW400cn at 500 max. So help me out if iv'e not confused you all! Do I need that faster speed? Bright sunny days say I do. Do I really need to spill out $250 or more on a real Barnack? How well does that 1000 speed work on a Zorki 3,4k,4m? I'm really especially wanting to hear from Reagan because he has both a Leica and Zorkis. Maybe some of you others do too, so please comment.


Signed; confused in NC

Greg

p.s. stay away from threads that say things like Barnacks: why we love them. very contagious

[bgb]

Cokin make an adapter for their A size filters in 40.5mm if you want to try ND filters, yeah i got one

[rxmd]

You very rarely have situations on Earth under natural lighting where you can't do with 400 ASA film, f/16 or f/22 and shutter speed 1/500. (And I guess in most of those you wouldn't want to practise rangefinder photography.) I would second the suggestion of trying an ND filter first.

Incidentally, if you're willing to spend the money for a real Barnack, getting both actually is an option ($250 or $260 isn't much of a difference)

Try the ND filter first, the Zorki second (should cost about the same as the ND filter). Chances are 99% that this combination will do the job.

[reagan]

Hey hill ~ I'm really quite happy with Zorkis and Leicas living under the same roof. (There's a few other no-name stragglers around too, but their just passers.through... the Zorkis and Leicas are here to stay.)

1/1000 shutter speed. Do we need it? The truth is, on a Zorki, (3, 3M, 4 or 4K) the odds of the 50+ year old shutters being actually 1/1000 are probably slim. They might be closer to - 1/700+ - 1/800? maybe? (Just a guess.) As far as adequate exposure goes, the difference in 1/500 and 1/1000 is 1 EV... one more f.stop will buy me the same as one more shutter speed.

The cameras I shoot the most are Zorki.1s and Leica.III(F)s all of which top out at 1/500. And like you, I shoot ISO.400 most of the time. I have in the past liked having 1/1000 for splashing water or stop action for bikers/runners/granddaughters running through sprinkers, whatever. But for the most part, 1/500 works fine on those rare occasions I want to stop something. (I'm getting less and less concerned with tack.sharp anyway.) But truth be known, I shot at 1/500 today because I was shooting snowy landscape with a Summar that only stops down to f.12.5, and it's the first time I've shot that high in a long time.

I like the Leicas. I've got two in hand and another in transit (come to papa! ) all model III(F)s, two black, one white. They are just a leeedle smoother operating and a leeedle nicer finish than the Zorkis, if that's important. But I like the Zorkis too and I have no complaint about their look, feel and ability to operate comfortably and produce satisfying photos. I have one other Zorki.1b not listed with those in my sig.

You said,

"...I love that camera! It feels right in my hands. We bond perfectly."

Ol' bud, that's the main thing. IMHO, once it feels right, i.e. you can comfortably operate the controls easily.automatically without piddling, then you can concentrate on looking for and framing shots and forget controls, f.stops and shutter speeds. No matter what marque is stamped on the top, the best camera for you is the one that disappears when you pick it up. For me that's Zorki.1s and Leica.IIIs. And honestly, they're similar enough, I can grab either one and go out the door happy...

Zorki.3, 3M & 4. They've got all the speeds and bigger VF, single eyepiece. But in my hands, they're just a little bigger feel than the 1s and Barnacks. So I sacrifice 1/1000 and big VF for compact size. Otherwise, they too function/feel/look just fine.

My preference of my cameras - Leica.III > Zorki.1 > Z.3 > Z.3M > Z.5 > Z.4. (I just haven't had a desire for the 4K.)

You're looking at the III.c & f Leicas. They're, as you know, a step up from my Leicas and I can't imagine you being the least disappointed should you opt for one of those. But, if acquired at a decent price, in the off chance you weren't happy, I'm confident you could easily pass it on to some GAScious chap right here at RFF without loss of much.if.any $$ ... nobody here has a new camera. We just keep passin' 'em around. Pricewise, 1 Leica = 2,3 or 4 Zorkis.

My advice, just sit down and list the features that are priorities for you, including price, and go for it. And remember, after giving it some time, if the newsky doesn't "do.it.for.ya" like your present Zorki, you'll still have it and you can always claim do-overs and try another avenue.

Lawdy Lolita, it's almost 2AM and I've written a book. G'nite mate!

[captainslack]

GB: Where in NC do you live? If it's near the Triangle, we could meet up and I can let you fondle my IIf. Granted, you might not WANT to fondle it, as it's guaranteed to bring on a major GAS attack.

Let make another suggestion: the Bessa T. It's like an updated Barnack RF. Built in lightmeter, M-mount, shutter speed to 2000. Doesn't have a viewfinder, but with an accessory finder it can take any lens you put on it. Used to have one and loved it, but traded it after I got my IIf (they were too similar). You can get one from CameraQuest for $199. Check out the info page there as well.

[rogue_designer]

One other thing to consider - BW400CN performs really nicely when you rate it at 250. So some overexposure is not a bad thing. You can pick up the extra stop that way if needed.

That said - ND filters are a lifesaver if you want to use wider apertures in daylight anway - might be worth getting a good one.

[gb hill]

Reagan I appreciate your input. I'm almost settled on just being satisified with what I got. I'm going to take time and do more research, and wait for the right deal to come along. I already have more cameras than I can use at one time. But they sure are fun!

About the ND filters: I'll have to check that out. The only filter I have ever bought was uv filters to protect the lens. Never have been much of a fan of filters.

Captianslack: I'm in Lexington, near Winston Salem. I drive a truck, not 18 wheeler, and frequent the triangle quiet often. MOF one of my stops is right next door to Peace Camera in Raleigh. I made the mistake of walking into that place one day and walked out with my first rangefinder. QL-17. Walked in there last week and they had a Barnak, two Leica m-3s, Canon p,(the p has been there for a while) I'm afraid to ask the price. And a Tower rangefinder. Think the Barnak was a two something! But it was $350. I got a nice tele-wide finder for $10 though, and I get my chemicals there. I'm sure you have been there. Great place for major GAS! My Bessa L I got from ebay came from Chapel Hill. So triangle area has been costly for me. I'll check on that Bessa T you menchioned about. Might be good way to get in Stephens good graces now that he is head bartender around here.

[rover]

Well, let me add my input as I own a Bessa T, Leica IIIc, Zorki 3m and Canon IVsb2.

If I had to own just one, I would choose the Bessa and Canon. Ok, that is two, but I don't like rules and would keep two.

The Bessa with built in meter and rear door loading is a very good camera. 1/2000 top speed, new clear rangefinder, you have to use a separate finder, but you get used to that.

The Canon simply is a better camera than the Leica or the Zorki. Yes, imagine a IIIf with a combined rf/vf and magnified VF to allow use without external finder for 50mm, 100mm and 135ishmm. That is the Canon. The VF window is larger and clearer than the Leica, though it has that horrible bottom loading thing going for it.

The Zorki is a very nice camera. Not built to the finish of the Canon or Leica, but it has a bigger finder than both and loads by removal of the back of the camera, not wonderful, but better than bottom loading.

And the Leica is a beautiful animal. With a 3.5 elmar it is just wonderful to have in hand. I hate the split viewfinder and bottom loading though. I keep it in hand, but rarely bring it to my eye.

If you decide to look for another body, do consider the Canons with the others.

[wolves3012]

If you feel the need for 1/1000 then you're lucky! I rarely find it a problem to be limited to 1/500 - unless you have a reason to want shallow DOF. The 1/1000 speed on my 4K works just fine. As has been suggested, there's always the option of ND filters. A pair of polarisers (if you can get hold of the right size) is also a useful means - turn them against each other for a variable-ND effect. I've used that technique on an SLR to get very slow speeds on a sunny day!

[captainslack]

Peace Camera has a Canon P?!? Where??? I've been there lots of times, but never seen it! (Probably a good thing.) Have to look a little closer when I drop by there today.

The Triangle area is blessed with an abundance of camera stores. Peace is a good shop and Southeastern Camera has three locations in the area. There's another store in Durham as well, but I can't remember the name. Needless to say, I have to issue some restraint quite often!

[jody]

I never use 1000 shutter speed on any camera I own. I even shoot sports with a max of 500. with 400 film or 200 set on my digital.

[dee]

i have a Leica II and a IIIc , from an inheritance , 'cos i'm broke now !
But my favourite camera is my silver and black Zorki S .... the black one in my avatar has gone back for re-re-servicing !
dee

[gb hill]

Captianslack: I may be wrong on whether its a p or a 7 or something else. It is a Canon screwmount camera. I'll have to check out the southeastern locations and find the store in Durham also. Peace camera is a great place. All the guys i've met are really good folks. Wolf camera doesn't hold water compared to Peace. Getting back on topic, I checked out the bessa T and sense all my lenses are screwmount I would have to get an adapter and I would probably be better off with a bessa R if I decide to go that route. All you other guys are right about the faster shutter speeds, I probably wouldn't never use it, and so far I have had good luck with experimenting with stopping down the aperture on my russian lenses to get good exposures on bright sunny days.

[gb hill]

dee is that Zorki S a copy of a Leica standard. I heard thats the camera HCB used. I don't know much about them though. You have to use external vf with that camera don't you? If so what do you use? Just curious!

Greg

[dee]

hi Greg
My Zorki S or C is just a normal model like yours , but painted up .
so it has the standard rangefinder - but I am new to all this and have just started using my black / nickel Leica II and IIIc , plus another Zorki S which is chrome and black !
great fun , but my mediocre photography !