Digital Zeis Ikon

[Paul T.]

My fantasy: Zeiss, via their long-term relationship with Sony, knows that they are working on a FF sensor, and are waiting until that's a reality before commissioning the Digital Ikon. Is there any real evidence this fantasy is true?

(And has anyone else noticed that this has become a phantom thread, which is labelled as having 'new' posts, when in fact the most recent one is days or even weeks old. A system glitch?)

[grainhound]

Originally Posted by Paul T.

(And has anyone else noticed that this has become a phantom thread, which is labelled as having 'new' posts, when in fact the most recent one is days or even weeks old. A system glitch?)

I've noticed this happening a couple of times, this thread being the most recent. I also wondered about a glitch. When I first saw this thread up again today, the time given for jaapv's post was 15 minutes ago. The date he posted on was 5-15-07. Coincidence or glitch?

[Sparrow]

It’s when people vote in the poll…………..like a dripping tap, innocuous at first but after a while.................... BLOODY ANOYING

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Paul T.

My fantasy: Zeiss, via their long-term relationship with Sony, knows that they are working on a FF sensor, and are waiting until that's a reality before commissioning the Digital Ikon. Is there any real evidence this fantasy is true?

Full Frame digital with the Leica M mount would be very difficult and expensive. The 1.33x crop factor of the M8 already required very expensive solutions such as special microlenses in order to work. Zeiss would probably want the Digital Ikon to be a little more affordable than the M8 so my guess is that they would use the same 1.5x crop factor APS-C sensors that Nikon uses. The current ZM lenses could be used so that the 2/35 becomes the new normal lens and the 50 mm normal lenses become portrait lenses. The Sonnar 2/85 would make a great longer than portrait telephoto lens, something that the ZM line currently does not have. Even the 21 mm ultra-wides would still be useful with 1.5x crop factor. Only the shorter than 30 mm (35 mm equivalent) lenses would have to be redesigned. If somebody needs a faster than f/2 normal lens, it would be very easy for Zeiss to design one.

Now, the real killer feature for the digital Zeiss Ikon would be autofocus possibility (new lenses with an AF motor would be required), which would make long tele lenses possible. A high quality auxiliary electronic VF (EVF) would be available for use with the AF lenses, since composing with LCD sucks. It would be something that no other camera company has and it would make the digital Ikon a real all-round photographic tool, which could compete even with DSLRs. It would also be much more expensive to develop than a straightforward rangefinder with a digital sensor, so I do not really believe that Zeiss has anything of the sort planned. Unfortunately.

[back alley]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

It’s when people vote in the poll…………..like a dripping tap, innocuous at first but after a while.................... BLOODY ANOYING

very true!

it could be avoided if people set a close date when they start a poll.

i figure 10 days max is good for any poll.

joe

[Sparrow]

“Killer feature” AF and electronic VF???

Well I, for one, would probably die laughing

[back alley]

dr.,
zeiss has already stated they would not consider a drf without a full frame sensor.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Now, the real killer feature for the digital Zeiss Ikon would be autofocus possibility (new lenses with an AF motor would be required), which would make long tele lenses possible.

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of it being an RF?

That's a Contax G2, not a ZM or M.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by back alley

dr.,
zeiss has already stated they would not consider a drf without a full frame sensor.

Well, in that case they will have their work cut out for them or they will have to use some other mount than the Leica M. A FF sensor with the M mount is not impossible, but keeping it affordable would be very difficult. Of course they may have decided just to keep it around the same price range as M8 and compete with better features. Since the M8 is so expensive it should be possible, but the market for DRFs is not very big and they would have to take a significant chunk out of Leica's market share if they want to keep it profitable. Or, which I find more likely, they do not have any concrete plans for a digital RF.

[Paul T.]

A lot depends on whether Sony and Nikon do, as rumoured, launch a FF camera. If that happens, the main engineering problem is that of vignetting.

I'd be interested to know if Zeiss WA lenses do show less vignetting on the M8 and R-D1, as has been suggested. Because if that is the case, Zeiss could launch a digital Ikon and claim that it gives decent image quality with their own WA lenses, even if legacy WA lenses are a problem.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of it being an RF?

That's a Contax G2, not a ZM or M.

No, it would not. AF with a motor in the lens would not add significant weight or volume to the body. It would require more battery capacity though, but digicams never have too much of that in any case. The EVF would be auxiliary, so you could detach it. It could even have its own battery.

So, you could still use the camera as a traditional rangefinder with the non-AF-lenses. RF coupling with about 180 mm (equivalent) or shorter focal length AF lenses would not be impossible either, although it would probably require a separate mode switch (AF/RF) in the lens.

The achilles heel of this concept with current technology is the EVF. Although EVFs have been improving steadily they still can't compete with optical VFs in image quality. However, with Zeiss' experience on military optronics and scientific imaging they might just be able to make a decent EVF. But of course none of this will happen, so Sparrow will still have to find other sources of amusement

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Paul T.

A lot depends on whether Sony and Nikon do, as rumoured, launch a FF camera. If that happens, the main engineering problem is that of vignetting.

I'd be interested to know if Zeiss WA lenses do show less vignetting on the M8 and R-D1, as has been suggested. Because if that is the case, Zeiss could launch a digital Ikon and claim that it gives decent image quality with their own WA lenses, even if legacy WA lenses are a problem.

That’s how I see it, once they have the technology why not? Steal a march on the competition and make your own WA lenses look superia at the same time, the R&D costs have to be incurred to make the dSLR may as well spread them as wide as possible and licence a dRF

[back alley]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Well, in that case they will have their work cut out for them or they will have to use some other mount than the Leica M. A FF sensor with the M mount is not impossible, but keeping it affordable would be very difficult. Of course they may have decided just to keep it around the same price range as M8 and compete with better features. Since the M8 is so expensive it should be possible, but the market for DRFs is not very big and they would have to take a significant chunk out of Leica's market share if they want to keep it profitable. Or, which I find more likely, they do not have any concrete plans for a digital RF.

i think that is more likely...no real plans to develop a digital rf.

joe

[Trius]

Originally Posted by back alley

i think that is more likely...no real plans to develop a digital rf.

joe

In which case I would opt for the RD-1, orphan status and all, until a successor to the M8 arrives.

[Bill58]

I suspect that a digital ZI also depends on whether Epson produces an RD-2 or not. I hardly think the market can absorb TWO digital RFs (all due respect to the zealous membership here).

[ZeissFan]

Now, revisiting this after a few months. Maybe we'll learn something after Sony releases its next generation of Alpha SLRs. At least one magazine believes that Sony is working on a full-frame dSLR. And Zeiss is making a small number of lenses for that camera.

Possibly the performance of its lenses with the upcoming Sony Alpha dSLR (full-frame, if the magazine's beliefs turn out to be true) will prompt Carl Zeiss to move ahead with R&D on a full-frame digital version of its camera.

Zeiss has an advantage in that it doesn't necessarily have to make a digital rangefinder backward compatible with Leica lenses. It has stated from the beginning that its ZM lenses are "digital ready," so it can simply market the camera as performing best with its own lenses and not have to be concerned with the crushing burden of trying to support 80 years worth of lenses (including LTM lenses).

Sort of a brilliant strategy to boost sales of a digital rangefinder and its own lenses.

... if a full-frame digital rangefinder is announced.