B&W film for a winter wedding?

Terao · 11-20-2006

Recommendations please for a B&W film to use at a wedding in two weeks. I'm not the sole photographer but would like to do something different to the endless snapshots.
Requirements are I guess:

1. Must develop well at a local minilab (no way I'm going to risk dev myself, I'm only just starting)

2. Day is likely to be overcast and generally dark (3pm on an English winter day)

3. Ditto for the church

4. Bride is incredibly fair - pale porcelain skin and platinum blonde

5. Traditional white wedding...

I'll be using a Bessa T with the VC 21, 50 Nokton (or maybe the 40), and the 75

Will also have the Epson R-D1 as backup, although I may give that to my father...

Thanks in advance

amateriat · 11-20-2006

The last two weddings I've reluctantly agreed to shoot (as principal photographer), I've shot Ilford XP2 Super, rated at E.I. 320, both available light (outdoors) and with flash (indoors). Very good results, reasonably tolerant of lab variability, crazy-easy to scan (IMO), yet easily printable in the wet darkroom. Others have used Kodak's BW400CN with good results as well.

- Barrett

ClaremontPhoto · 11-20-2006

Well you've got three C41 films: Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. Pick one or two and rehearse now with somebody of similar coloring at about 3pm.

If the 'model' can wear a white shirt that may be a good idea.

See what you think of the results.

Whatever you do don't choose on the recommendation of somebody here, take the photos, and then discover too late that it was the wrong choice for you.

Kin Lau · 11-21-2006

If you're dependent on the lab, then it's best to ask the lab what they handle the best. Otherwise, there isn't much difference to the end user btwn the c41 b&w's.

venchka · 11-21-2006

If the final product is lab made prints & scans, test the LABS! Make sure they know how to get black & white prints from one of the films mentioned. Too many labs never see this film. The results can be green or magenta. I agree with the advice to shoot either the Ilford or the Kodak at 320. I really like the way the Kodak film renders people. Both films are good, just slightly different.

Toby · 11-21-2006

If I had an RD-1 I wouldn't even consider using film at an event that was at 3pm at this time of year. I've been doing lots of pro work outside at that time in the last week and have often found myself having to go to 800iso. Bear in mind it's going to be virtually dark by 4pm. Also, if by some fluke the light is good you can always drop the iso down and get really great quality shots. I think the RD-1 and the nokton is just about the best possible set up for that subject and conditions and you'd have to be crazy to make life hard for yourself by using film

fgianni · 11-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Well you've got three C41 films: Kodak, Ilford and Fuji.

You forgot the Lucky SHD400CN, I just ordered 10 rolls on eboy for $22, never tried it so don't know if it is any good.

iñaki · 11-21-2006

I would choose the Epson Rd-1, and the Bessa T as backup loaded with Ilford HP5 (ISO 400).

ClaremontPhoto · 11-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgianni

You forgot the Lucky SHD400CN...

Thank you. I had never heard of that one.

lubitel · 11-21-2006

I shot a few rolls of 400cn at a wedding. the conditions were really dim, they actually dimmed the lights in the restaurant for a more romantic look. I used J-3 at 1.5 and 1/30th. If I could I'd use the RD1 and then convert to B&W.

Xmas · 11-21-2006

Split the film you shoot over best two mini labs in case one of them is training a wino or virgin.

Only use one camera and one lens, (I'd pick the 40mm myself). If it fails snatch the spare from your Dad, better get your Dad to reload the film camera, swap when you get to 36, check the rewind nob is going round by wasting a frame, every new film when your Dad return the film camera, you will feel like a knob if you dont.

You could ask to replan the wedding for 11:00 as 15:00 is a pig, any bad cloud cover and you will be at f4 and slow, this will stress any ones technique. Pray for high light cloud, hire a big collapsible reflector just in case, - you need a teenager to hold refelctor, a gurl is the best bet. Dont go below f4 it will slow you down too much, the chromogenic will tolerate some underexposure, if you are prepared to shoot at high index I'd stay at 5.6 or smaller, the grab shot at 5.6 is sharper than the one at 4... The grab shot is the one you will regret missing.

Good luck. If you are lucky the bride will kiss you when she sees the proofs.

Noel

P.S. Ive got a cork in the air 18" from the bottle, so nothing is impossible, burn film like there is no tormorrow say +10 cassettes, buy new batteries form a high turnover shop, there is no tomorrow.

w3rk5 · 11-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Well you've got three C41 films: Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. Pick one or two and rehearse now with somebody of similar coloring at about 3pm.

If the 'model' can wear a white shirt that may be a good idea.

See what you think of the results.

Whatever you do don't choose on the recommendation of somebody here, take the photos, and then discover too late that it was the wrong choice for you.

This is very good advice. I got some wedding shots taken with B&W and C41 on my blog if you want to check them out.

mwooten · 11-22-2006

Terao,
I've used the Ilford c-41 before and it is nice. However, since you have the RD1 I would use it. You would save a lot of money vs. film/processing. Grab a handfull of batteries -- a fistfull of memory cards, and shoot away.

Take care,
Michael

mr roberts · 11-22-2006

When I need a little more speed I've been very happy with HP5 @ 800 processed by the kind and reliable folks at DR5. The process favors the bump up on HP5 and the transparencies are beautiful to project and nice to scan. And a flash or 2 just in case there's a delay and they go off later than expected.

Pherdinand · 11-23-2006

Don't know about England but here, condition No. 1 excludes everything else except C-41 BW films.

Toby · 11-23-2006

Yesterday, I was out in London at 3pm and the light reading was 1/60 @ f2 at 800iso (!). Seriously, I'm not sure 400 iso film is a viable option.

Terao · 11-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by w3rk5

This is very good advice. I got some wedding shots taken with B&W and C41 on my blog if you want to check them out.

Wow, fantastic wedding shots. That's exactly the sort of look I'd like to achieve. Glossy shots in a Round Midnight style

Terao · 11-23-2006

Thanks all, excellent advice...

Well, the rules have changed...
Dad has been given the groom's mother's digital compact (a funky little 5mp Minolta with spot metering and what looks like a 28mm equivalent wide end to the zoom) so he'll be using that. I guess that means the T becomes my backup body now and I'll mostly be using the R-D1. A shame, as I wanted him to get to use the R-D1 with a view to buying him one as his first digital (he was a film rangefinder nut for years...)

Will have an experiment over the weekend with some C-41 and try and work out which lens goes on which body. Reckon the 21mm f/4 on the R-D1 is going to be too wide for group shots? (I know it would be on the T)

popstar · 11-23-2006

I also recommend finding a lab that can handle the film if you are forced to go that route. Not everyone can work with the C-41 B&W film very well. Best to find a good shop before the big day!

As for film, I've had good experience with the Kodak BW400CN. While it's not the best photo in the world, here's a photo as an example of what the 400CN can do:

I personally love how the silver platter is rendered in the picture. Just an example...

Bessa R, 50mm/1.5 Nokton, Kodak BW400CN

mr roberts · 11-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

Yesterday, I was out in London at 3pm and the light reading was 1/60 @ f2 at 800iso (!). Seriously, I'm not sure 400 iso film is a viable option.

OP "Will have an experiment over the weekend with some C-41 and try and work out which lens goes on which body. Reckon the 21mm f/4 on the R-D1 is going to be too wide for group shots? (I know it would be on the T)"

Sounds like some differing opinions on the light levels at this time of day. How is a 21/4 with 400 film going to balance against 1/60 @ f2 at 800iso? How does the RD-1 perform at 1600 equiv?

A 21mm on an RD-1 will be ~32mm equiv?

Terao · 11-24-2006

Hmm, good points. Epson is very, very good in low light. I think all is pointing to using that exclusively, unless I happen to luck out with a great day (last Saturday was blue skies and huge contrast (see my Flickr gallery...)

kully · 11-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr roberts

OP "Will have an experiment over the weekend with some C-41 and try and work out which lens goes on which body. Reckon the 21mm f/4 on the R-D1 is going to be too wide for group shots? (I know it would be on the T)"

Sounds like some differing opinions on the light levels at this time of day. How is a 21/4 with 400 film going to balance against 1/60 @ f2 at 800iso? How does the RD-1 perform at 1600 equiv?

A 21mm on an RD-1 will be ~32mm equiv?

At f/4 you're looking at 1/30 at 1600...eek. Just took a reading, 11am and it's 1/60 at f/5.6 (ISO400).

I'd take the 21/4 for group shots, I took my 21/4 to a wedding in the summer on a R2a - terrible - too much clutter in each shot and I couldn't get close enough to make it go away. Wish I'd not decided to slip the 85/2 into my pocket.

Toby · 11-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terao

Hmm, good points. Epson is very, very good in low light. I think all is pointing to using that exclusively, unless I happen to luck out with a great day (last Saturday was blue skies and huge contrast (see my Flickr gallery...)

Yes, I shot last Saturday and was using 100 iso for the job, but unless you have a fully working crystal ball it's the RD-1 every time.

mdelevie · 11-24-2006

I think the constraint of using C41 film at a minilab is a bit too limiting, because it caps the ISO at 400. Is there any way you can send the film out to a proper lab, ie one that will develop normal b&w film?

That would open up the possibilities of pushing 400 speed film a stop or two, or even using the high speed emulsions like Delta3200 or Tmax3200.

The attached photos are not 'keepers', (sorry, the good ones go to the bridal couple...) but hopefully they give you a look at what ISO3200 film will get you in terms of grain & dynamic range. This was a fairly dimly lit wedding, my ambient light reading on the altar was 1/30th at ISO800 and f/2.8. The last shot used flash, and shows what Delta3200 looks like when overexposed by +1 stop (ie, exposed at ISO1600 and processed normally for 3200) -- much less grain, creamier grays, much better.

My point is that you have lots of options in B&W high-speed film, but none if you stick to C41 chromogenic process. I hope this is helpful. Best of luck with your wedding shoot -- don't forget to enjoy yourself!

Mark

nikon_junkie · 11-24-2006

Man, you Brits live in the Dark Ages!

I'm still experimenting with with my M6 at weddings, but having done nearly two dozen with a D200, I would definatly go the RD1 route. Digital (RAW) is a lifesaver at times, and being your first it will take LOADS of stress away. I can't stress how much of a relief that will be for you...

This way you never have a doubt as to whether you got a shot, and in particular if it's one of the must haves.

I agree with the last post, and ditch the C41 ISO 400 stuff and add a few rolls of Delta 3200 or Neopan 1600 rated at 1250 for a different look and a bit security ISO wise.

In case Murphy shows up at the wedding and kills your RD, take some 800 color film just in case. Err on the side of caution and avoid 400 film.

Since you are not the sole photog, I would ride that extra stop all day and night.