Mystery photograph

l.mar · 01-19-2005

This was probably not taken with a R/F camera, but I thought one of the well-traveled and cosmopolitan members of RFF might be able to help me with this (I've also posted on the classic camera section of photonet) This is a print from an old, single 6 x 6/120-sized B & W negative I discovered in some old wood contact printing frames. It's a photograph of some rather odd statuary. From the haircuts and groovy short-sleeved shirts of the tiny tourists shown near the bottom border, I believe it dates to the late 50's-early 60's, and the angle of view seems to indicate that it was taken with a TLR-waist level finder type camera. Now here's the question --- does anyone know where this picture was taken?

Todd.Hanz · 01-19-2005

The statue on the right looks like George Washington (or Ben Franklin) could it be Mt. Vernon? Could the tree represent the cherry tree he chopped down (I'm going out on a limb here......pun intended), just my creative thinking.

jlw · 01-19-2005

The angled piece looks very much like the gnomon of a giant sundial.

The figures on the left appear to be engaged in spinning wool (note spindle in the outer figure's left hand) and the figure on the right might be carding wool, although it's hard to be sure.

Any help?

Of course, my whole theory could be off base. I paged through a registry of public US sundials I found via Google and didn't come across one with a description matching this.

Let us know if you get a positive ID!

rover · 01-20-2005

The little figure on the right looks like he/she is eating a banana.

pshinkaw · 01-20-2005

I think the figures represent the "Three Fates" of Greek mythology. They were three women (sisters?) who spun out the length of a person's life in a wool thread. One spun, another measured, and the third cut the thread when it was time to die.

That sugests to me that it is a sun-dial. As to where...?

-Paul

jlw · 01-20-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by pshinkaw
I think the figures represent the "Three Fates" of Greek mythology. They were three women (sisters?) who spun out the length of a person's life in a wool thread. One spun, another measured, and the third cut the thread when it was time to die.

Good call! I spotted the spinning figures but didn't make the mythology connection.

I didn't say anything the first time, but the tree seems to have symbolic content as well: note how one side has dead branches and the other side has leafy branches, so it could well be a mortality symbol like the Fate figures.

The bird has to be important, but I'm not sure what it is: a raven?

So, we've got a sundial with Greek mythology symbolism. Somebody's got to know what it is/was...

pshinkaw · 01-20-2005

Looks like it is in Queen's New York.

http://www.artsconnected.org/artsnet.../sundial3.html

http://www.artsconnected.org/artsnet.../sundial6.html

-Paul

g0tr00t · 01-20-2005

Is the negative reversed? GW is in both pics....

http://www.artsconnected.org/artsnet...g/g/mma_11.jpg

Oldprof · 01-20-2005

Impressive detective work and analysis by our Forum members! But that statue/sundial violates my aesthetic sensibilities.

pshinkaw · 01-20-2005

In the posted photo the spindle is in the woman's left hand. In the web linked version above, it is in her right hand. One of the two is reversed.

Anybody from Queen's on the forum who has actually been there?

-Paul

jlw · 01-20-2005

Gosh, do you suppose it's still there?

The links referenced above (on the Artsnet Minnesota website) seem to indicate that the large version of the sundial was part of the 1939 New York World's Fair.

The fair was built in Flushing Meadow Park in the borough of Queens, so it's logical that the Queens Museum of Art would be credited.

But most of the fair's exhibits were only built to be temporary; the sundial looks like marble, but probably was only plaster over a framework (if you look carefully at the gnomon, you can see the seams.) So, it wouldn't surprise me if it had been torn down as soon as the fair was over.

So, you've got a very cool artifact image here, showing an unusual artwork from a famous event of the "classical rangefinder period"!

1939-40 World's Fair info

l.mar · 01-20-2005

Like the photo I posted, the link to the small bronze model (http://www.pmphoto.to/WorldsFairTour/Statues/004.htm)
shows the first "fate sister" holding the spindle in her left hand and pulling out the thread of life with her right, which would make sense if she were right-handed. On the other hand, (pun intended) how many depictions of left-handed deities are there? If the negative was from 1939, it was in remarkably good shape.
Thanks for all the great detective work!

Also (and I don't want to become obessive about this), someone from the classic cameras section at photonet kindly provided this link of the statue/sundial from the '39 Fair --- the first fate appears to be holding the spindle with her left hand.

http://www.pmphoto.to/WorldsFairTour/Statues/004.htm

Scarpia · 01-20-2005

During the 70's and 80's I spent many days in Flushing meadow park with my kids. The statuary of the 1939 worlds fair was completely gone, I would certainly remember a piece like this. The reference shown indicates it was made of plaster so it certainly no longer exists. Paul Manship did other statuary for the '39 fair as well as other works of a permanent nature including "Prometheus" in Rockefeller Center. He was very popular during the 1930's.
Kurt M.