Is an M7 signifcantly faster than an M6

[haziz]

Let's face it, I am used to using aperture priority for most of my 35 mm shooting, occasionally even program mode with AF and digital cameras when feeling particularly lazy. I do use large and medium format if I am deliberately going out to photograph landscapes which is what I mostly do, but then I am spot metering with a pentax spotmeter.

Leicas however have built their reputation as stealth cameras for both street as well as available light indoor photography as well as a travel camera. So my question is do people find the M7 wth it's aperture priority significantly faster compared to an M6 or MP? I am obviously refering to the abilty to get the shot or to quote a famous Leica user capture the decisive moment. Obviously Henri Carier-Bresson never used an M7!

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

[Crasis]

I do not trust auto exposure, even with 200 point matrix calculated exposures, which the M7 definitely does not have.

If you trust it, then I'm sure it'd be faster for you.

[Gabriel M.A.]

"Significantly"? I think that depends on the user.

If you're too slow (and again, the "you" is a general "you", not you you) to move around the controls manually compared with an automated setup, then it may be significantly faster.

I test-drove an M7, and used it in Aperture-Priority mode for a few days. Nice. But that took away the thought (and even, at times, the serendipity) I put into the exposure that I do with my M2 or M6. Not to my taste. If it were given to me, I'd keep it. But I wouldn't make it my own choice, I guess.

Anyway, short answer: it depends.

[peter_n]

I use both and much prefer the M7. Gives you the very same control as an M6TTL but on those days when the sun is annoyingly dodging around behind the clouds it is priceless. Once you learn how to use it the meter is extremely accurate (as it is in the M6TTL). With the M7 you also get stepless shutter speeds on AE which slide shooters really like. I'm a fan!

[billh]

Yes, it is faster, and allows you to concentrate entirely on your subject, and not on matching needles. As for any exposure idiosyncrasies, you’ll quickly learn the situations where you’ll have to add exposure compensation or lock in an exposure by depressing the shutter release part way down.

[Goodyear]

Have a read of this (long) thread.

It depends on you're approach to metering. Sometimes I think an AE camera would be handy, but that's an issue of laziness on my part rather than speed.

[Bike Tourist]

Yes, it's faster in changing light and where moving people-dogs-kids are involved.

I've found the metering to be just fine since I now use negative film. Compared to slide film, negative film is like being on vacation — it would be hard to mess up, except in extreme situations that ought to be easily recognized and dealt with.

[Ben Z]

I use an M6 with slide film and I know from experience only a certain proportion of shots are just luckily laid out so that what the meter "sees" just happens to be a middle tone, or a mix of tones that average to middle. Otherwise I have to be judicious and take a reading off-center and recompose, or in some cases, set the lens to infinity, take a reading from the palm of my hand, and overexpose a stop and a half. The meter pattern in the M7 being the same as the M6 I would expect the same to hold true. Pressing the shutter button halfway to lock the reading is probably a little faster than matching the triangles but having used AE cameras, for me it isn't night and day different.

Also, I tend to take a reading and stick with it until the light changes rather than metering every shot. Even if the light does change I can generally guage from experience how much to alter the exposure, so I don't need to re-meter every time.

My experience has been that the multi-segment-evaluative-matrix metering is the only kind that has an impressive hit-rate if used to meter instantly without thought to the tone spread in the shot.

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[jaapv]

There is a great advantage to the M7 that is not often mentioned (probably because it is a niche in niche system) but the AE makes using the Visoflex much easier and faster, not having to adjust exposure in the viewfinder. Personally, with the M6 I use an exposure meter, but still it is easy to adjust the aperture incorrectly during shooting.

[Benjamin Marks]

No. Not the way I use the camera. This is a surprise to me, as I assumed the answer would be yes. In most situations that I photograph, light is not shifting so quickly that mutiple meter readings are required. Also, I tend to shoot multiple images of a subject (sometimes a whole roll) and so I am very aware of how the light is changing (if at all). Reading the other responses in this thread, though, I see that my experience may not be typical.

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[scribble]

The M7 is a great tool, and the shutter is much better for shooing slides. But for me, the reason to own my RF is for a slower pace, so my M6 with B/W negatives is what i use. If i was shooting slides in it, it would be a diffrent story. But i have found the F5 so much better at Av modes than any other cam, so all my Astia goes through it, not a RF.

[MCTuomey]

Hany, you can shoot any leica with a preset f-stop and shutter speed, set at your choice of hyperfocal distance, as quickly as you can press the shutter and rewind. That's pretty fast. You can do the same thing using AE instead of a preset s/speed and f-stop. Just as fast as the full manual preset mode, more or less accurate as to exposure depending on the light, taste, etc.

If you believe you're going to use AE often, the M7's the obvious choice. Otherwise, save some money and get an M6.

And of course you can always sell one and buy the other later ;-))

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by scribble

The M7 is a great tool, and the shutter is much better for shooing slides. But for me, the reason to own my RF is for a slower pace, so my M6 with B/W negatives is what i use. If i was shooting slides in it, it would be a diffrent story. But i have found the F5 so much better at Av modes than any other cam, so all my Astia goes through it, not a RF.

I hate to be the one to disagree with your very first post (this forum is definitely not like "that other" Leica forum where they pounce on new guys and try to run them off--been there, outa there ) but I've been shooting slides with the "mechanical" Leicas for ages and haven't seen where an electronic shutter would've given me better exposure. Disclaimer: I have had my Ms checked and/or adjusted by Don Goldberg to be as close as possible to the marked speeds. I did have an M4-P for a short time that had been overhauled by someone else and the speeds and my slides were all over the place. From what I have been told by the teckies, though the M7 has a pair of electromagnets instead of the mechanical geartrain (escapement?), it does not have a self-diagnostic/self-calibrating thingy like the F5, plus the rest of the shutter parts are the same as an M6, and so if the lube isn't right the M7 can get pretty far out of specs too.

As for the metering, I have to agree that the F5 comes about as close to a blindly trustable automatic meter as there is. I've rented both the F5 and EOS 1V for nature shooting and whereas the 1V needed some user input fairly often in tricky lighting, the F5 was on the money about 98% of the time.

[amateriat]

When I moved from the intense automation of a pair of Minolta 9xi AF SLRs (which had a multi=patterm metering system I'd put up against anyone else's) to my current pair of Konica Hexar RFs in early 2002, I had some momentary hearburn over the fact that I was switchng to a relatively "primitive", heavily center-weighted metering setup. Looking back, I needn't have worried: the HRF's AE is splendid with either 'chromes (which I don't shoot as much as I once did anyway) or neg film. I'd imagine the M7's metering system is at least as dead-on.

What I appreciate is the option of using AE or manual (sometimes...heavens!...breaking out the hand-held meter for incident metering), choosing whichever works best for a given situation. Magus makes a strong argument for manual metering, and in fact I've done so for just the reason described. Most of the time, however, I've got both HRF's on "A" (AE Lock, actually); between that mode and a well-placed exposure-compensation dial, I'm not wanting for exposure flexibility in most situations.

I also appreciate the accuracy of an electronic shutter (I believe the HRF, like the F5/F6, has a diagnostic system for its shutter, which is fully motorized in both charging and firing action). This is hardly a big deal with the film types I shoot most, but for those occasional forays into slide shooting, I don't have to second-guess myself, aside from shooting a test roll to ascertain actual film speed against rating.

Speaking of exposure compensation: another thing about the HRF and M7 that I love: DX coding. Yep, I'm that much a spoiled brat. I love my Ricoh GR1 for the same reason. And that little camera, like the HRF and M7, have such easy-to use exposure compensation that this is the way I "pull" XP2 to EI 320 most of the time. This saves me from the occasional screw-up when I decide to suddenly switch from XP2 to Portra 160; the cameras give me a heads-up to zero-out the EC dial before disaster strikes. Yes, I should just be more careful and methodical in the first place, and most of the time, I am. But not always. And just one muffed "killer snap" can dampen your afternoon.

So, a little cheer for automation, and it's thoughtful use.

- Barrett

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by amateriat

Speaking of exposure compensation: another thing about the HRF and M7 that I love: DX coding.

- Barrett

Thanks for reminding me, I had completely forgotten the main reason I handed the M7 back to the clerk and said no thanks. I always rate my slide film differently from the assigned ISO (most everything I rate under a third stop except the old Velvia 50 which I rated a third over) and the M7 has a red idiot light that flashes if the ISO is set other than at the speed the DX is telling it. I was told I could have the DX coding mechanism disabled but I thought, sure, on a (at the time) $2500 camera I have to break something on purpose? No way.

[Xmas]

Henri lasted until '04, so he only just missed trying a M8.

Noel

[amateriat]

Originally Posted by Ben Z

Thanks for reminding me, I had completely forgotten the main reason I handed the M7 back to the clerk and said no thanks. I always rate my slide film differently from the assigned ISO (most everything I rate under a third stop except the old Velvia 50 which I rated a third over) and the M7 has a red idiot light that flashes if the ISO is set other than at the speed the DX is telling it. I was told I could have the DX coding mechanism disabled but I thought, sure, on a (at the time) $2500 camera I have to break something on purpose? No way.

Yep, I forgot about that M7 "feature"; I thought Solms had changed that. Not an issue on the HRF (just a non-flashing +/- indicator in the VF).


- Barrett

[peter_n]

I bulk load so the DX is always wrong. To be honest I don't notice the LED. If I'm on AE I don't take notice of anything going down there; too into my compo & DOF.

[Jouvet]

I am new with rangefinders and Leica. But I have used M3 and M7. I think with the M7 it kinda makes me lazy.

[Harry Lime]

It depends.

I have traditional bodies like the M2/M4, but also a M6ttl and the M7. Here is my experience and it really depends on the situation on hand.

If the light is changing and the action is moving quickly the AE is faster.
If you are trying to take an unexpected grab shot and only have time to frame and focus, the AE is faster.
The AE is very accurate, if you know how to use it properly.

If you are walking about and the light is fairly constant, you are better off taking the occasional incident reading with a meter (or following the Sunny-16 rule), setting the camera and just shooting. It's faster and you'll get better, more consistent exposures.

The most annoying feature about the M7 AE is that it only locks the meter reading for ONE shot. Here is an example. Lets say you are shooting someone who is illuminated by a shaft of light in an otherwise rather dark room.

1) You place the RF patch on the subjects face, get the reading and hold the shutter halfway down to lock the exposure speed.

2) Then you reframe.

3) Now you wait and release the shutter at the decisive moment.

4) You may have just created a masterpiece, but you also just lost the locked AE reading.

5) You advance the film.

1) You take a new reading off of the subjects face by hold the shutter halfway down.

2) Reframe.

3) Wait, shoot.

4) Advance film, go back to step one.

This is very, very annoying. It's not too bad if the action is slow. But if you are trying to take consecutive shots in quick succession you will miss opportunities, because are constantly forced to retake the reading. Unless your subject is center in frame, you're going to be bouncing around like you're sitting in a paint mixer.

In this sort of situation I take the M7 out of AE mode and operate it like an M6/TTL/MP.

So, on one hand the AE has some real advantages, but Leica's implementation is a little screwy. There should be a separate AE lock button on the back of the camera for your thumb, so you don't have to take a new reading every time you make a shot in AE mode. The saving grace is that you can obviously run the M7 like a traditional M or in the AE mode.

In any case the M7 has become my workhorse. In conjunction with a Leicavit and fast 35mm the M7 pretty hard to beat.




HL

[Dougg]

I'm not averse to manual operation, even carrying a non-metered camera without an accessory meter. But I do prefer the availability of AE even if I then use that camera on manual for the reason Harry Lime mentioned.

There was an event in the late 1960's that made me appreciate the difficulty of estimating sudden changes in illumination, and the desirability of AE. There was a political protest on the corner at Seattle's Pike Place Market, and I was shooting the speakers and crowd with an M2 with 35 'cron plus a Pentax with 85mm. Tri-X. Anyway one speaker and a heckler got into a fist-fight and the action moved quickly into the dim cover of the Market. I cranked open 3 or 4 stops and kept shooting, but I should have opened up another couple stops. AE is good in such situations.

That M2 is still my only Leica, but I use my CLE more. I could see myself with an M7... Mmmm, classy!

[ClaremontPhoto]

Originally Posted by Bike Tourist

...I've found the metering to be just fine since I now use negative film. Compared to slide film, negative film is like being on vacation — it would be hard to mess up...

Set the camera for the light and take photos.

The light does not change every microsecond.

[Xmas]

Jon

Push the button first, then set the camera, you get two chances that way.

The guy with the plate cam who got the Hindenburg had a real bad day but a good shot.

noel