hand hold with slower speeds

[nzeeman]

i always ask myself what slow speed one can effectively hand hold and get decent photos (with normal 50mm lens). i can only 1/30 but from time to time i see that some people claim they can hand hold 1/8? so tel me what you can and maybe share some advices. we also can put some of our available light handheld photos in this topic. that also would be very helpful for other members i think.

[reub2000]

Can you really handhold at those speeds?

A lot of it depends on the way you photograph something, and the acceptable amount of motion blur. If I tuck in my elbows, 1/50 second isn't that hard. However, if I'm running around trying to get a shot, 1/125 second, or even 1/200 second can be needed.

[Sparrow]

I’ll risk 1/15 by composing myself and taking 3 or 4 shots as backups I get lucky most times, a leaf or vertical shutter should put less vibration into the body than a horizontal one.

[Twigs]

My results at 1/8s are not good, but it still beats no getting a shot at all. (1/15s is pretty acceptable)

This is what I do when I have to shoot at speeds such 1/8 and 1/15s:

Stand up straight, camera in front of chest, loosen up the shoulders, elbows and wrists, feet slightly apart with one foot ahead of the other, inhale normally, exhale halfway, take the shot, and finish. (phew)

[Sparrow]

With a wide angle the subject’s movement becomes more of a problem than camera shake is

[J. Borger]

Let's put it this way ... people shooting RF cameras tend to overestimate their handholding capacities. I prefer to stay within the general rule of 1/focal length. Very litle moments/ situations are so unique that i settle for a blurry picture instead of no picture ... blurry/ soft pictures due to camerashake or misfocus end in the trash-can sooner or later .. so make no sense for me !

[Gid]

Epson RD-1. 1/6th, 1/13th

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...00&ppuser=1433

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...00&ppuser=1433

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by J. Borger

Let's put it this way ... people shooting RF cameras tend to overestimate their handholding capacities. I prefer to stay within the general rule of 1/focal length. Very litle moments/ situations are so unique that i settle for a blurry picture instead of no picture ... blurry/ soft pictures due to camerashake or misfocus end in the trash-can sooner or later .. so make no sense for me !

Some push the envelope, some don’t, maybe

[thurows]

A good trick is to put the camera on a table top tripod and then brace the tripod to your upper torso, shoulder. That'll help you get a couple of shutter speeds slower.

[ddutchison]

Using the camera strap for extra bracing can help. I carry my camera on my shoulder with the strap adjusted so that it's quite snug when I bring the camera up to my eye.

I generally feel confident about getting sharp pics at 1/60 or above (sharp in this case means "looks good in 8X10"). At 1/30 I still expect the results to be sharp if I've made a special effort to hold the camera steadily and the subject is relatively still. Definitely at 1/30, it's subject movement more than camera movement that results in unsharp pics. At 1/15th I expect unsharp pics but am often surprised, the results can be very good. By 1/8th for me, for sure, the picture won't be sharp, not that that'll stop me from shooting.

[Kyle]

I don't usually have the best luck with really slow shutter speeds, but sometimes I get something I like.

Zeiss Ikon with Canon 50/1.2, 1/15s at 1.2, XP2. The lighting was terrible (this was at a concert hall, light on the subject was light being reflected off the stage).

[SalmanA]

I am using a mini soft-release on my R2A and have gotten a couple of very good shots at 1/15s. Still have to try 1/8s and slower...

[Spyderman]

With a rangefinder and standard lens everyone should be able to handhold 1/30. For SLR 1/60.

Everything longer depends on shutter "kick", camera mass, photographer position (e.g. elbows on table, standing...) and definitely the number of cofee cups the photographer had that day

For example Bessa has kick-ier shutter than Canonet, but I doubt I could use slower shutter speed with the Canonet, because it is just so much lighter.

Here is a couple of examples from my gallery:
Bessa R + Jupiter 8 50mm, 1/15 @ f/2, standing

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ondrej_p/242393095/

Bessa R + Jupiter 8, 1/8 or 1/15 @ f/2, sitting

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ondrej_p/260764624/

Bessa R + Jupiter 8, 1/8 @ f/2, sitting, elbow on table

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ondrej_p/260102828/

[leica M2 fan]

I've had good results with RF cams at 1/15s but not below this. I once did 1/15s with a Nikon 8008 and 50mm lens at night, a purely grab shot that to this day I'm really proud of.

[leica M2 fan]

Those are terrific efforts at handheld shots, I especially like the last one, it is such a good photo !! Thanks for sharing.

[Spyderman]

Leica M2 fan: Thanks
The little girl is my goddaughter. And the photo was just a snapshot.

PS: just noticed the different color tint of every picture in my previous post blue, yellow, orange ;!

[BrianShaw]

Originally Posted by J. Borger

Let's put it this way ... people shooting RF cameras tend to overestimate their handholding capacities. I prefer to stay within the general rule of 1/focal length.

It's ironic that this topic comes up... I've been thinking about it lately. I tend to agree with the above quote... but realize that some folks actually can hanhold a slower speeds than this "rule" in a reliable manner. The other day I was having breakfast with on old (75 years old, at least) former boss. He was showing me some pics he took and bragging htat he can handhold a camera at 1/2 sec. When I asked him if he's still faster than a sppeding bullet, can jump over large buildings in a single bound, and is stronger than a freight train he answered 'yes' to all of the questions. I'm sure he's telling the truth... isn't he?

[Trius]

I'm generally not good at handheld when standing as I really only have one good leg. But when sitting (which theoretically should be easier anyway, what with a broader centre of gravity ) I have done a decent job at 1/8s



and 1/4s



The second one shows grain due to underexposure and limited DOF, of course, but I was pretty surprised by the sharpness. I think the secret was the half pint of Guiness I'd consumed as a calming agent. Hey... it was an Irish jam!

[VinceC]

It seems like I'm always at 1/8th of a second with my 35/1.8 lens.
A peace rally in Seoul, South Korea, in 2003.

My youngest daughter at a New Year's party this past Dec. 31. (The kids celebrated at 8 p.m., so we got two New Year's in one night).

[thurows]

Some pulitzer prize winning photos are the shakiest things on earth so do what you gotta do.

[mtscherning]

If your shutter speed is slower than the reciprocal of the focal length of your lens, you must use a tripod.

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

Good base rule for most people, 40mm lens, use 1/40th or faster

[VinceC]

>>If your shutter speed is slower than the reciprocal of the focal length of your lens, you must use a tripod.<<

I'll admit it's a good rule of thumb. But the essence of RF photography is having a small, discrete camera with you when unexpected shots present themselves. Alfred Eisenstaedt shot primarily the Leitz Elmar 35/3.5 and said he had trained himself to use it reliably down to 1/4th of a second. Walls, posts and elbows on tables can all become makeshift tripods or monopods. Just a few days ago I set my camera on a napkin holder at a cafe and used the self timer to eliminate camera shake.

[Xmas]

Carry a monopod, strap it to walk around bag, disguise as umbrella if sensitive, use in self defence if attached and outnumbered.

Shoot immediately using best hand held technique, then shoot again braced, pillars & walls seats etc. are your friends at 1/30 and below with normal (focal length) lens. If the pillar is slim wrap an arm around brace camera to pillar. Checklist focus, aparture and speed somewhere in sequence... shots remaining if you are near to 36...

Then set up monopod if you have time. You need to practice both with monopod and/or without one.

Go for shot at risk if you need to, buy a 1.4 in your focal length, be prepared to push whole reel for a winner - two bath etc.

If it is a night shoot and static you need a heavy tripod, a pad with velvet, for auto suppression etc.

Vince is right, unless you have a view camera

Noel

[BrianShaw]

Originally Posted by Xmas

Carry a monopod, strap it to walk around bag, disguise as umbrella if sensitive, use in self defence if attached and outnumbered.

Ha... this reminds me of an experience I had photographing in Knareborough Yorkshire many years ago. I was shooting the castle with a TLR and monopod. The monopod seems to have been an object of interest trhoughout the UK. I found that odd... but I digress. On this day the sky was perfect and there were a pair of the most handsome older women Iv'e ever seen sitting on the bench in the foreground of my shot. As I was composing, a child,about 12 years old, stood next to me and shouted to one of the women "Mum, what is this man doing?" She shouted back "he's a photographer, dear; he's photographing the castle." He returned the shout "what is that odd appliance he is using?" She replied "I don't know, but I wouldn't stand too close to him." All the time she maintained an extrordinary pose for me. The photos are magnificent. At the end I nodded and we exchanged distant pleasantries.

Prior to that, however, when entering the ocuntry at Heathrow... the cops gave me the "third degree"... "what is this?; Is it an aerial?; Is it electrical?; Is it a weapon?; If it only has one leg, how does it hold up a camera?

[furcafe]

If I'm not tired or just finished exerting myself, 1/8th is generally the slowest speed I can manage while truly handholding (i.e., standing up w/no support whatsoever). I can get down to 1/4th or so if I'm sitting down, leaning against something, etc. & even slower if I rest my elbows on a table or use "found tripods" (like Vince's napkin holders--I like beverage glasses myself) but @ that point subject movement is really the biggest problem. I use the same techniques I was taught for shooting firearms (controlling breathing, stabilizing the body, etc.), but most of it is just practice, practice, practice. You might want to try "dry firing" your camera w/no film in it @ slow shutter speeds. The advantage of doing this w/an RF is that you can see what's happening @ the moment of exposure.

Also, I've read that Cartier-Bresson actually did exercises to strengthen his arms (Leica curls?), & I have to say that my handholding abilities were better when I worked out regularly.

Here's a fairly recent example of a snap I took while sitting down @ my local diner:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/furcafe/226208951/

According to the EXIF data, which you can access from the link, the shutter speed was 1/11th sec.

Here's an old shot that I took @ 1/8th sec., according to my records (I've been keeping exposure notes on a PDA for the past 5 years or so):



http://www.flickr.com/photos/furcafe/37827926/

Originally Posted by nzeeman

i always ask myself what slow speed one can effectively hand hold and get decent photos (with normal 50mm lens). i can only 1/30 but from time to time i see that some people claim they can hand hold 1/8? so tel me what you can and maybe share some advices. we also can put some of our available light handheld photos in this topic. that also would be very helpful for other members i think.