M8 Review by Tom Abrahamsson

[bob cole]

Here's a great review of the M8 from the LUG site:



Tom

Would the rapidgrip works on the M8??

cheers

TTAbrahams@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Yes,
> Leica kindly lent me an M8 to try out. I suspect that they thought "If he
> likes it, we are on the right track"!
> Well, I am happy to say that they are on the right track. The M8 does behave
> like an M-camera should. It puts minimal "digital" between you and your
> picture, but if you are so inclined you can add all the bells and whistles to
> what you are doing. When I got it (no manual for it) I managed to turn it in to
> a M2/M6 with little fuss. Put it on mono-chrome, put the ISO to 320 and stick
> a lens on it. I don’t shoot color and to me the black/white image quality
> was what counted. The first couple of 100 shots were done with everything in
> "Standard" setting and the prints that my local lab pulled were a bit flat (to
> be expected as you can manipulate the image in the computer after wards). The
> next batch was shot with higher contrast settings and came out fine. The
> higher ISO settings have a bit of digital "noise" (1250/2500) but so would film
> if you either used a T-Speed or Delta 3200 so no big deal.
> It does feel like a slightly obese M6. The additional thickness coupled with
> the rather slippery covering had my right hand cramping up after a while. I
> did get used to it, except when I switched between a M2 and M8. My hand
> wanted to "crush" the M8 to M2 thickness! The lack of a film-advance arm is
> somewhat disconcerting as it does feel like an M and you are forever trying to pull
> out a lever to hook your thumb behind - although this is something you get
> used to. I love the base-plate with its folding "Leica" key lock. Battery and
> SD card are accessed by removing it and I still have that fleeting thought “
> Damn, did I rewind the film" before pulling the base plate off! The design is
> that close to an M!
> The noise is modest; a soft click and a slight "whirr" sound is not
> disturbing at all. My biggest problem with the M8 is that I am a left eye focuser and
> my nose is squished against the screen. During flu-season that could be an
> ugly sight! Some kind of cover would be useful - particularly as I use it as I
> would a regular M, shoot away happily and after 40-50 shots I looked for a
> shady spot (outdoor patio of cafe works well) and chimped through what I shot
> and deleted the misses or boring stuff. Like any digital screen, however
> pleasantly sized it is - I cant see it bright light and as I have to take off my
> glasses to see it in subdued light - i might just as well be comfortable,
> sipping coffee and admire my handiwork.
> I went through my lenses and anything that could be made to fit was put on
> it. from 12/5,6 to 135/4 in M-mount and even some Nikkor RF lenses with the
> Orion-copy adapter as well as my Viso III. I need to make a mask (i.e. draw the
> reduced frame size with marker on the Viso screen). It also works well with
> Bellows II (and a 61/2" Kodak Anastigmat from an old folding Kodak).
> Lenses like the 75/2 and the 50/1,4 Asph. works very well, but I found that
> I was suing my 40/1,4 Nokton and the 28/25 focal length for most of the
> "keepers".
> The technical stuff I leave to those of us who like that kind of stuff but
> the long and short of it is that A/I have ordered one and B/ Leica succeeded
> where nobody else did. They made me a believer in Digital. The M8 will be a
> complement to my M2's and M6's. It will not relegate film obsolete in my
> "book" but it will be additional tool in the arsenal.
> Now, all we need is a printer that is dedicated to black and white. Four
> shades - glossy black, matte black, mid-grey and light grey and while I am
> dreaming - a spot-varnish feature. Oh, the inks should also be reasonably priced!
> For storing the digital images I would like to see a digital to film transfer
> that was easy to use and cheap at that. Film is still the cheapest and
> safest long term storage available! Well, if Leica can build a Digital M
> successfully why cant other manufacturers do what some of the customers want to have!
> The demand for a dedicated b/w printer would be huge - think of all those
> neg- files sitting around. I have in excess of 350 000 negatives on file- most
> are not worth the backing they are on, but some I would like to do quick
> prints from. The good prints I would still do in a wet darkroom as I enjoy that
> process - staring at a screen does not come close to the pleasure of watching
> a white sheet of paper
> turn into an image.
> Best for now,
> Tom A
> -----
> Tom Abrahamsson
> Vancouver, BC
> Canada
> rapidwinder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>

_______________________________________________
Leica Users Group.
See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

[back alley]

did you get permission to reprint?
maybe just a link next time...

[bob cole]

I let him know what I was doing...

[back alley]

Originally Posted by bob cole

I let him know what I was doing...

thanks bob.

[sherm]

Bob:

I just sent Tom a note, but when he says "Leica has made him a believer in Digital" does that mean digital rf's or digital in general?

Did he give you any insight into this?

Thanks,

Scott

[bob cole]

Originally Posted by sherm

Bob:

I just sent Tom a note, but when he says "Leica has made him a believer in Digital" does that mean digital rf's or digital in general?

Did he give you any insight into this?

Thanks,

Scott

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Sherm, I just let him know; he hasn't replied...

[IGMeanwell]

Well your at it... you should introduce him to the world of MIS inks and Museo Silver Rag!!!

[Sonnar2]

> Leica kindly lent me an M8 to try out. I suspect that they thought "If he
> likes it, we are on the right track"!
> Well, I am happy to say that they are on the right track.

If he said it, it might be true...

cheers Frank

[bob cole]

Leica has a very long history of lending its cameras and lenses to VIP's-- as does Nikon, Canon and, I believe, other camera manufacturers...If you think about it, other manufacturers also have a long history of lending their products to important people...As a kid I remember seeing pictures of Bing Crosby in a Schwinn bike advertisement...

[kbg32]

Originally Posted by sherm

Bob:

I just sent Tom a note, but when he says "Leica has made him a believer in Digital" does that mean digital rf's or digital in general?

Did he give you any insight into this?

Thanks,

Scott

I would surmise digital in general. I know he has used the RD-1.

[HenningW]

Originally Posted by sherm

Bob:

I just sent Tom a note, but when he says "Leica has made him a believer in Digital" does that mean digital rf's or digital in general?

Did he give you any insight into this?

Thanks,

Scott

Tom A. is a good friend of mine. Besides shooting Leicas (he probably has about 20 at any one time) and Nikon RF's, he produces accessories for them, the Rapidwinder, Softie and RapidGrip. He has been solidly in the film world, and while the Digital M will start to bring him into the digital domain, I very much doubt that it will become his main focus. Reflex cameras remain something to use when RF's just can't handle it anymore, and since he doesn't shoot on assignment any more, that's rarely going to happen.

I'm posting this here as he doesn't read the RFF. I'll be discussing this with him later today though.

Henning

[HenningW]

Originally Posted by kbg32

I would surmise digital in general. I know he has used the RD-1.

But he gave it back toot sweet.

Henning

[Nachkebia]

Exactly, it can nicely compliment film for $5000

[Olsen]

With all respect for the ex. swedish Aftonbladet-photographer, Tom Abrahamsson,- but 'digital' is a reality for 95% of photographers today. And so is shooting colours for 99,9%. Has been for 30 years.

Now we are seeing a great push of borders on hand held colour photography in available light. Canon 5D and 1Ds II has broken new ground in this field - and leaves us - the generation of photographers that both Tom Abrahamsson and myself belong to, just appalled. Never have I ever seen so low noice/grain at high ISO.

It seems that Leica has picked this up and are seeing to that M8 is going to be 'the' available light/hand held digital shooter in the market. Very exiting!

[Ronald M]

Gammatech in New Mexico will output to film. As Tom say, the best archival storage.

[billh]

Ronald,

Thank you very much. I have often wondered about such a service. I also see they scan 4 x 5 negs on an Imacon 949 for $15.00, which seems like a real bargain to me.

Have you had any digital files converted to film? If so, how does the quality compare to the original digital file and to an image made in a film camera?

Thanks,

Bill

http://www.gammatech.com/html/home.htm

[EllitoGuy]

Put it on mono-chrome, put the ISO to 320 and stick
> a lens on it. I don’t shoot color and to me the black/white image quality
> was what counted.

shooting in the bw mode in-camera is a very silly thing to do.

[EllitoGuy]

Originally Posted by tom

Film is still the cheapest and
> safest long term storage available!

this is 100% wrong. film can be destroyed. fire, water, time, etc. digital cannot. that is, if you know how to back up your stuff.
additionally, at approximately $8-$9 per 36 images (purchasing and processing), film is one of the most expensive long term storage systems available.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by EllitoGuy

shooting in the bw mode in-camera is a very silly thing to do.

Sometimes I feel very silly and have gotten good results
Probably the better way is to set the camera up for B&W and the shoot RAW or RAW + JPEG. The RAW file will have all the info for PP conversion and you can compare it to the in-camera version. While shooting, you get to see a B&W version on the LCD for composition.
Bob

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by EllitoGuy

this is 100% wrong. film can be destroyed. fire, water, time, etc. digital cannot. that is, if you know how to back up your stuff.
additionally, at approximately $8-$9 per 36 images (purchasing and processing), film is one of the most expensive long term storage systems available.

Film may be more expensive than digital back-up, but one thing that it definately has going for it is that it is human-readable. You can pick up a piece of film and look at it, print it, etc. Try doing that with any sort of digital media.

Digital media is just as likely to be damaged by fire, water and time as film.

You can continually update your back-ups just as easily--if not as inexpensively--with analog media as with digital.

[fgianni]

Originally Posted by Ronald M

Gammatech in New Mexico will output to film. As Tom say, the best archival storage.

Is anyone aware of a similar service in Europe?

Thanks

[EllitoGuy]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Film may be more expensive than digital back-up, but one thing that it definately has going for it is that it is human-readable. You can pick up a piece of film and look at it, print it, etc. Try doing that with any sort of digital media.

Digital media is just as likely to be damaged by fire, water and time as film.

You can continually update your back-ups just as easily--if not as inexpensively--with analog media as with digital.

umm you can preview a digital file just as easily these days, probably more easily since you dont need a loupe to get a decent idea of whats on the neg-- the screen gives you much more information. plus, i dunno if you heard about this, but you can print digital files too...

digital media is superior because one is not limited to the physical, youre only trading and storing information. that information can be transmitted and stored in many places very cheaply.

and im sorry but youre way off base saying you can update backups for analog media as easily, you need to send the digital file to be burnt onto a neg, which then has to be shipped to you. i can put my files on a digital server which is backed up on 20 different drives in about one minute, for free.

like i said, digital is superior because the medium is inconsequential, you can destroy a hard drive, but if i put the file in my gmail account, the only thing that could permanently destroy my file is a nuclear holocaust that wipes out all of america. in that event my pics wont be my largest concern.

[EllitoGuy]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Sometimes I feel very silly and have gotten good results
Probably the better way is to set the camera up for B&W and the shoot RAW or RAW + JPEG. The RAW file will have all the info for PP conversion and you can compare it to the in-camera version. While shooting, you get to see a B&W version on the LCD for composition.
Bob

well i didnt say its impossible to get a good shot, youre just shooting yourself in the foot in that when you shoot bw only in cam, youre throwing away all the color information which you can later manipulate into black or white values (channel mixer FTW!)

but yeah, maybe bw on screen for composition is helpful as a compositional tool, i havent really used it as such...

[Nachkebia]

You can shoot raw file in BW mode, so you can see BW on the back screen (for the mood) but have all the color information saved...

[EllitoGuy]

Originally Posted by Nachkebia

You can shoot raw file in BW mode, so you can see BW on the back screen (for the mood) but have all the color information saved...

thats what bob ross said...