Now that the M8 specs are known...

[Terao]

...are you more or less likely to consider moving to one from your R-D1?

Extremely keenly priced at £3k (double the price of the R-D1S @ Robert White), it could easily be double the quality...

1.33x crop plus build quality plus better rangefinder is a tempting proposition.

Although from what I've read in the preview on DPReview, ergonomically I prefer the R-D1 still (film wind, jog dial, ISO setting, analogue dials)

An interesting quandary for anyone with £3k to spend on a camera. Shame that doesn't include me...

[garethc]

Got to say that I never seriously considered one due to price and being new to rangefinders. But after having had a great time shooting with the R-D1 on my first proper outing with it recently and now that it is 'real' the M8 does seem very tempting.

Its a tricky one...I don't really want to be an early adopter of this but how long will R-D1's keep their value? I could sell my R-D1 along with my 12mm Voigtlander lens which I can't see me using much with the M8 and that would get me some of the way towards the M8. Would still need to find a couple of thousand though! If I could sell enough kit to only need perhaps £1000-1400 I would be seriously tempted but as things lie I think maybe next year!

[jlw]

If price weren't a problem I would get an M8 in a heartbeat, even though in some ways I prefer the R-D 1:

Features I like better on the R-D 1

• Life-size 1:1 viewfinder

• Only one frameline shows at a time

• You can change film speed and white balance without using menus

• Folding LCD

• PC socket (if there's one of these on the M8, I can't find it in the pictures or specs)

• Hinged doors for SD card and battery; no loose parts to juggle while changing

Features I think I'd like better on the M8

• Wider range of finder framelines -- being able to use a 75 or 90 without an accessory finder would be a big advantage for me.

• Wider range of EI settings, ditto

• 10 megapixels instead of 6 -- not as big a deal as it sounds, but still a plus

• Motorized advance -- sometimes this is very useful

• From the specs, it appears that the meter pattern will be more selective

So, the M8 would have definite practical pluses for me. Just being able to use longer lenses conveniently is a clincher, since I do a lot of performing arts photography and 50mm often isn't quite long enough.

But there's no getting around the fact that I just can't afford the thing. Performing arts photography doesn't pay very well, at least not the way I do it, and even if I sold all my Nikon DSLR gear (which I don't need very often, but when I do need it, I really need it) it wouldn't make much of a dint in the M8's $5000 price tag. The only thing I own that I could conceivably sell to raise that much cash is my 1971 SAAB 95 station wagon, and I need that for hauling studio photography gear, so getting rid of it would impair my photography capability more than buying an M8 would add to it. Bummer.

I agree with the suspicion that the arrival of the M8 is going to bring a lot of used R-D 1s onto the market. A lot of well-heeled people who bought the R-D 1 just because it was a digital RF camera undoubtedly will now want an M8 instead. That's bound to make R-Ds more affordable for buyers, but worth less for sellers. Bummer again. Remember, economics is called "the dismal science"!

[Geo]

For me it's not an issue.
I love the way the R-D1 works and feels.
(film wind, jog dial, ISO setting, analogue dials)
10MP is the only pré for me, but therefor I don't let my Epson go.
Geo

[J. Borger]

I will add the M8 .. plan on using it alongside my R-D1 ....
Sold my Canon 1Ds & assorted L glass in anticipation of the M8 .... i am completely dedicated to the RF format now..... size/ weight & imagequality are the reasons why .
2 Bodys is no luxury .. i have no other camera anymore!

[Terao]

I think now that the price is known, there will be a fair few R-D1s on the market. People will see the R-D1 as ~1/3rd deposit and that suddenly makes the M8 an almost justifiable purchase. I know non-pros who were happy to pay the same price for a Nikon D2X so Leica have hit the right price in my opinion (the "doctor/lawyer/City" market)

I just see that as an opportunity to acquire a second body

[JonasYip]

I'll probably get an M8 sooner or later, but I don't think I'd sell the RD-1. It'd be good to have a digital backup body (rather than having to carry around film and an M6 as backup).

Feature-wise, I like the wider selection of framelines on the M8. I'd miss the folding LCD and the non-menu driven controls (for ISO, WB, etc) on the RD-1.

j

[Ed Schwartzreic]

I was fortunate to be one of those who had a preproduction M8 to use for a few days, and can say this now that it has been just released. I already have my brief review in to the LHSA [i]Viewfinder[i] magazine, for publication in October. Indeed, Sean Reid and I shot it together. We are both R-D1 fanatics as well. I already have my order in for an M8, and you may well see some of my Leica and other goodies on eBay to help pay for it.

While there is of course overlap in the way the two cameras might be used, I think there are differences as well. I plan to use both cameras. I think I will use the R-D1 for street photography, where it handles almost exactly like a Leica M, wind-on included, and with the viewing screen turned into the camera back. The R-D1's 6.1 mp sensor is plenty large enough for PJ work, and the images when printed in monochrome often have the look of Tri-X. I have really internalized the R-D1's ergomonics, and love its flexability.

The M8 I will use for more exacting work, for color especially. I handles even faster than the R-D1, but, as Sean has indicated in the first part of his review, it could be cumbersome for the street shooter due to several important functions being menu-driven only. The appearance of the M8's files, even with preproduction firmware, is outstanding -- smooth, incredibly detailed. I will only say that I was printing an 8x12 image on matte paper my Epson printer
and thought there was a defect in the paper, when it was really the accutance of the image itself. I have never had this happen before, and it was uncanny.

These of course are first impressions with regards to the M8.

Ed

[Nachkebia]

often have the look of Tri-X

Yeah right.... will you be kind enough to show us a sample of that?

[J. Borger]

Originally Posted by Nachkebia

Yeah right.... will you be kind enough to show us a sample of that?

Come on Vladimir... .. you are sitting on the fence to go Digital ... ... admit it.
Perhaps it feels like cheating your beloved film cameras.... but that's natural & just temporary!

[Ed Schwartzreic]

How about this one? 28/2 Summicon, ISO 1600.

[Ed Schwartzreic]

The image didn't load.

[Nachkebia]

J. Borger : I own D200 with alot of lenses and for proffesional work I only use my digital nikon
Ed Schwartzreic : Image is not loading...

[phototone]

Originally Posted by Terao

...are you more or less likely to consider moving to one from your R-D1?

I would think more of a concern is the fact that the RD-1 is discontinued, and I wonder, considering the electronic bits are supplied by Epson, how long Epson will support the camera?

With Leica, as long as they stay in business I believe they will support their produts.

[Bob Parsons]

Originally Posted by Ed Schwartzreic

The image didn't load.

Image is a CMYK jpg which is going to cause trouble



Bob.

[Ed Schwartzreic]

Thanks for catching the cmyk setting. I had this as a cmyk .tiff for publication, and the conversion to .jpeg of course left it that way.

[sreidvt]

Hiya Ed and all,

My plan is to keep one R-D1 and buy one M8.

Cheers,

Sean

[rvaubel]

Originally Posted by sreidvt

Hiya Ed and all,

My plan is to keep one R-D1 and buy one M8.

Cheers,

Sean

Me too. I fell in love the Ms RD's cute little analog gauges. I don't think we will ever see anything like them again as only Epson/Seiko, because of their watchmaking roots, could have been able to develop such a retro implementation of a read-out. The irony is how very well they work. But the cost was reported to be around $600 and was one of the things that lead to a high price for the camera.

But I'm keeping mine. On a cold winter night there is nothing so romantic as turning on ms. Epson and watching her stepper motors drive her needles to the hilt.

Wait, stop.... this is a family newspaper!

Rex
arf

[RML]

Originally Posted by Terao

1.33x crop plus build quality plus better rangefinder is a tempting proposition

Build quality will be better? Let me put it this way: will the new M8 survive being thrown to a wall? From very close by I've seen an M6 survive such treatment. I'm pretty sure the R-D1 won't survive. I'm thinking an M8 won't either.

Better rangefinder? Perhaps the QC will be better but I've not experienced any of the rf problems that so many other R-D1 users reported. And many of these reports also reported (later) that after proper calibration the rf was spot on.

The 1.5x crop factor on the R-D1 took me a few days to get used to, true, but I'm using a 50mm lens almost exclusively on the R-D1 now. The crop factor just means I have to step back a few steps compared to a 50 on a film camera, and that suits me just fine.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by RML

Build quality will be better? Let me put it this way: will the new M8 survive being thrown to a wall? From very close by I've seen an M6 survive such treatment. I'm pretty sure the R-D1 won't survive. I'm thinking an M8 won't either.

Better rangefinder? Perhaps the QC will be better but I've not experienced any of the rf problems that so many other R-D1 users reported. And many of these reports also reported (later) that after proper calibration the rf was spot on.

The 1.5x crop factor on the R-D1 took me a few days to get used to, true, but I'm using a 50mm lens almost exclusively on the R-D1 now. The crop factor just means I have to step back a few steps compared to a 50 on a film camera, and that suits me just fine.

My M6 survived - with minor dents and a misaligned RF,but usable, being run over by a bus. I think the M8 would at least have lost its LCD plus some buttons being switched on permanently.

[sreidvt]

Originally Posted by RML

Build quality will be better? Let me put it this way: will the new M8 survive being thrown to a wall? From very close by I've seen an M6 survive such treatment. I'm pretty sure the R-D1 won't survive. I'm thinking an M8 won't either.

Better rangefinder? Perhaps the QC will be better but I've not experienced any of the rf problems that so many other R-D1 users reported. And many of these reports also reported (later) that after proper calibration the rf was spot on.

The 1.5x crop factor on the R-D1 took me a few days to get used to, true, but I'm using a 50mm lens almost exclusively on the R-D1 now. The crop factor just means I have to step back a few steps compared to a 50 on a film camera, and that suits me just fine.

Well, I love the R-D1 too, as you well know, but indeed the build quality of the M8 is higher than that of the R-D1 and it does use a higher quality rangefinder. I still don't have my second body back from Epson and it's been returned twice. I've had two so far with play in the yoke of the RF mechanism (no adjustment for that).

Cheers,

Sean