If You Have Set aside $1000~$2000

raid · 09-03-2006

I am thinking out what has been on my mind for a few months;
if I could put together some "extra cash" for camera with a built-in meter and which accepts Leica lenses, am I better off with a Leica M6 (say) or
a Bessa R3M or other models.

The main factors for me would be
1. usefulness with 35mm~90mm
2. ruggedness
3. keeps its value

Then there is a need of a great 50mm lens.
I have many vintage lenses, but I want to try out a new design higher contrast normal lens.

I have seen reports on the high sharpness of the Heliar 50mm/3.5, and I was intrigued. I have also heard of other non-Leica 40mm/50mm lenses that sound great [Zeiss]. There always is the option to get a new design Summicron 50mm lens.

Based on your experiences or what you have read or heard, what would you suggest?

I don't like digital cameras, so unless "something happens", I will not save up for the M8 or M9 or M10...

Raid

Wayne R. Scott · 09-03-2006

If I had the discipline to save up the neccessary cash and I wanted an on board meter (which I don't) I think that based on your 3 points above I would buy a Leica M6, a Contax to M lens adapter, have the M6 serviced, and then shoot my Sonnar 50mm f1.5.

How's that for a plan?

Wayne

Rich Silfver · 09-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne R. Scott

If I had the discipline to save up the neccessary cash and I wanted an on board meter (which I don't) I think that based on your 3 points above I would buy a Leica M6, a Contax to M lens adapter, have the M6 serviced, and then shoot my Sonnar 50mm f1.5.

How's that for a plan?

Wayne

I like Wayne's plan a lot.

FrankS · 09-03-2006

Of the options you mentioned, and knowing the gear you already have, I think only the M6 will satisfy you.

wlewisiii · 09-03-2006

Well, my plan, once I start getting income from my new work in October is to save for a Hexar RF body and a ZM 50/1.5 lens. I'm not sure how well that would fit your #2 criterion, but other than that, what you're talking about is something I've pondered of late as well. Hence, my plan to try to save $50 a week towards that goal.

William

richard_l · 09-03-2006

M6 and new version Summcron 50. Wonderful lens with an optimally designed built-in hood. For slightly better flare resistance and greater contrast/crispness at the smaller apertures, there's the magnificent new Elmar 50, but it's only f/2.8. The Elmar also comes with an optimal screw-in hood.

Richard

Wayne R. Scott · 09-03-2006

My current plan is to use a Leica M2 with the Contax to Leica adapter and my Sonnar 50mm f1.5 and a 35mm Skopar with LTM to M adapter. I'm about 3/4 of the way there. I just need to finish listing a load of equipment to sell.

Wayne

raid · 09-03-2006

The M6 has been my first priority, and I want your respected opinions and suggestions. The Contax-M adapter sounds very useful. Does it run for about $300 and are there different versions or is it the same make?

The Leica gear "feels right", but I am open minded to accept non-Leica.

Raid

SolaresLarrave · 09-03-2006

Raid, how about a Konica Hexar?

Come on... you said you were open minded...

venchka · 09-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolaresLarrave

Raid, how about a Konica Hexar?

Come on... you said you were open minded...

I am suddenly thinking about the same thing as a compliment to my M5. I've never seen one nor do I know the first thing about the body. However, the lenses are highly praised on this Forum. A body & 50mm lens went for about $1,000 on ebay recently. Makes me wonder, eh?

richard_l · 09-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid amin

...The Leica gear "feels right", but I am open minded to accept non-Leica...

This is just my opinion, so everybody stay cool. I think it is certainly possible for non-Leica to be just as good as Leica, but it is unlikely to be better. Therefore, if I have the money, I prefer to buy Leica, unless there is some special characteristic of another lens or camera which I particularly need.

Lest anyone think I am a Leica snob or closed-minded, my favorite camera for everyday use is the venerable classic Rollei 35 S, not Leica. In this case the special characteristics in its favor are size/portability, dependability, and total manual control, without significant compromise of lens quality.

Richard

wlewisiii · 09-03-2006

Wayne,

http://www.cameraquest.com/konicam.htm is a good place to start. Then read here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/hexarrf.html

I really think it will be the next M-mount body that I buy. This is why I mentioned it in my first responce to Raid. There are a number of them with many good points, but that one just seems to have "it" for me. YMWV...

William

Joerg · 09-03-2006

Hi,

do not forget the ZI!

Ciao

Joerg

ghost · 09-03-2006

well, if you're into short trips.

ClaremontPhoto · 09-03-2006

I'm with Daniel on this one: film and plane ticket.

Maybe start in Estonia traveling alone and light, two star hotels, local trains, awake early to find the market, eat in regular sort of places, live on the street and stay away from anywhere the tourist office recommends.

I hate long haul so Baltic would be about my limit. Perhaps where you are Raid you could get to Cuba?

[Rich: Raid has already got cameras]

raid · 09-04-2006

I am not saying that I need advice on what to do with my life if I had extra $1000~$2000 to spare; just a simple question regarding a modern lens and a solid camera body that accepts Leitz lenses. I get plenty of chances to travel overeseas and here in the USA, so this has never been a problem for me.

The Hexar sounds very good, but what about some people's concerns about the Leitz lense sbeing not 100% compatible or the repeated postings about relaibility problems with the Hexar body?

I think that I am"ready" for a contasty lens. I enjoy the photos that I manage to get with the older designs of Leitz lenses, but I am very curious whether I may discover a new world of photography to my eyes with a high definition lens.

The latest Summicron is said to be a gem, and the new Zeiss lenses are praised by many. The Hexar 50/3.5 and the 50/2.0 are supposed to be excellent too. When it comes to a new 40-50 lens, things are not so unclear to me.

When it comes to the camera body, I am more "confused". Maybe I can get away with what I already have, but my only M cameras with built-in meter are the CL and the T. The CL has a short rangefinder base and the T has no viewfinder. I am getting too old to accept such shortcomings. Too old implies there is only one life we lead so we may as well enjoy it. The M3 is great and maybe another M3 would be great too,but why not get a body with a meter in it for those times when a meter is handy.

I nearly made a "bid" for a Bessa R3 on this forum but then decided to slow down in my buying process and to carefully think over all factors.

Raid.

raid · 09-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

Of the options you mentioned, and knowing the gear you already have, I think only the M6 will satisfy you.

Frank: Why do you think so?

Raid

jja · 09-04-2006

Raid, you have gotten varied responses, hope you are not too confused.

I say stop torturing yourself and get an M6 + current Summicron. The M6 is an incredible value right now, and of all the 50mm lenses I've owned (4 in SLR mounts, plus M-Hexanon, plus Nikkor 50/1.4 ltm), the Summicron combines the best contrast, sharpness, pleasing oof areas, and ergonomics (the M-Hexanon is very close).

FrankS · 09-04-2006

Raid, you know how your M3 feels in your hands? Can you feel a difference in build quality in your Bessa T? Some people say they can't, or they say it doesn't matter to them because it's the results that count. That's fine for them, but for me, the process in enjoyable too, and I really enjoy using a very fine tool. That's what the M6 is.

I've not held a Contax Zi, or a Hexar RF. Both of these cameras rely on batteries to operate at all. No problem for most folks. For me, I appreciate the reassurance that my M6 will continue to take pictures sans electricity. I know that one can carry a spare battery no problem, When one is talking about equipment at this high level, it is the little things that count. Something that is important for one person, isn't for another. A camera is something personal like a guitar. At the mid and top range of guitars, they are all great, but little things about different guitars appeal to some and other things bug some. It's very subjective, isn't it. For me, I have more confidence (rightfully placed or not) in a mechanical camera over an electronic one. (The Speed Graphic, the Hasselblad 500cm and the Rolleiflex are similar cameras in this regard.) This is not an issue for others and that's perfectly okay. Everyone's mileage does vary!

back alley · 09-04-2006

if it were my money...

leica m 6 with current elmar

zeiss ikon with planar

leica cl with cv 40/1.4

in no particular order...

raid · 09-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

Raid, you know how your M3 feels in your hands? Can you feel a difference in build quality in your Bessa T? Some people say they can't, or they say it doesn't matter to them because it's the results that count. That's fine for them, but for me, the process in enjoyable too, and I really enjoy using a very fine tool. That's what the M6 is.

I've not held a Contax Zi, or a Hexar RF. Both of these cameras rely on batteries to operate at all. No problem for most folks. For me, I appreciate the reassurance that my M6 will continue to take pictures sans electricity. I know that one can carry a spare battery no problem, When one is talking about equipment at this high level, it is the little things that count. Something that is important for one person, isn't for another. A camera is something personal like a guitar. At the mid and top range of guitars, they are all great, but little things about different guitars appeal to some and other things bug some. It's very subjective, isn't it. For me, I have more confidence (rightfully placed or not) in a mechanical camera over an electronic one. This is not an issue for others and that's perfectly okay. Everyone's mileage may vary!

Frank: My M3 feels great in my hands and it is in my eyes a masterpiece to be enjoyed while taking photos with it and afterwards. I don'tknow how I managed to keep it mintish looking so long; maybe my respect for its beauty?
The Bessa T feels like a cheap toy in comparison even though it functions very well. The meter is dead on and so is its rangefinder, but using external finders is not always fun. I also prefer mechanical cameras and that's why I mentioned up front the M6, being the last of its breed. I have no hesitation using a non-Leitz lens on a Leica camera.

Yes, the small differences count, and that's way it is in real life. When you reach the top, it takes extraordinary efforts to get higher up there. I already have very functional equipment that by no means is inferior, so I need that extra jump upwards to make spend so much money [it is a lot] for yet another camera and lens.

Regards,

Raid

raid · 09-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

if it were my money...

leica m 6 with current elmar

zeiss ikon with planar

leica cl with cv 40/1.4

in no particular order...

Joe: Can you tell me how you find the Zeiss equipment compared to that made by Leitz?

Raid

Rich Silfver · 09-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

Raid, you know how your M3 feels in your hands? Can you feel a difference in build quality in your Bessa T? Some people say they can't, or they say it doesn't matter to them because it's the results that count. That's fine for them, but for me, the process in enjoyable too, and I really enjoy using a very fine tool. That's what the M6 is.

I've not held a Contax Zi, or a Hexar RF. Both of these cameras rely on batteries to operate at all. No problem for most folks. For me, I appreciate the reassurance that my M6 will continue to take pictures sans electricity.

I swear, if Frank would like in-thread images we'd be twins

FrankS · 09-04-2006

On the other hand, the Contax Zi is very nice!

FrankS · 09-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Silfver

I swear, if Frank would like in-thread images we'd be twins

Don't get me started on the dam (sic) in-line images slowing everything down and making the thread jump all over the as it loads!

The trust in simple mechanics is not as unusual here at RFF, where most folks are using an antiquated film camera design, as it is in the general electronic-loving public.

Think of it as un-plugged. Acoustic guitar over electric.