Out of curiosity...

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

In preparation for tax time next year, I'm going to start asking a few questions about things. My first, though, is weird.

If I got an M2 where this was possible, how much would someone charge for a frameset replacement? I'd like a modern set of framesets with the 28 and 75 sets, but I don't really want a modern camera.

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

It would be cheaper to get an M2 and have the conversion done than buy an M4-P, methinks...even if I opted for a flare-proof set. For the moment I only need 35/50/90. It's just something I'm thinking of for the future.

And about sacrilidge; to me, a camera is a tool. I'll use it, try not to abuse it, and modify it to what I need because that's all it is, a tool. It's a very pretty tool, though.

venchka · 08-26-2006

Stephanie,

A quick look at the classifieds here doesn't make for a good market survey, but...

Decent M4-P with a recent DAG CLA = $800

User M2 $573 + framelines $150 + CLA $300 = $1,023

Look before you leap.

Good luck!

terrafirmanada · 08-26-2006

No, get the m4-p if you want those frames. My m2 was just converted during cla, and I do not like it as much. I thought I would like the 28mm lines, but the are not needed imho. Furthermore now I do not have those great 35mm lines. I even thought about trying to trade the m3 for another m2.
The M4-p is a newer cam. I think they are great looking, and you can get one for the same price as a good m2. In order to get a good m2 you will need a cla, so the money saved in purchase is lost later. and if you have viewfinder fungus, then you are going to end up with a m4 or m6 frame-mask (it is hard to find m2 masks).
I have adjusted to the m2/m6, but it does flare from time to time (especially in uneven lighting situations. It is otherwise brighter than my m3, but if I am shooting toward a window, then I tend to loose my patch image, which is frustrating.
Of course, you could go with the mp mask, and the price I was quoted was 185 usd.

James Brannan · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Brim

It would be cheaper to get an M2 and have the conversion done than buy an M4-P, methinks...even if I opted for a flare-proof set. For the moment I only need 35/50/90. It's just something I'm thinking of for the future.

And about sacrilidge; to me, a camera is a tool. I'll use it, try not to abuse it, and modify it to what I need because that's all it is, a tool. It's a very pretty tool, though.

Agree about things being tools. My favorite photographer loves taking new DSLR's (D70, D200, ect.) that have pop up flash and permanently epoxing them in place. He has also done the same in the past to various controls on camera bodies and lenses (lenses that he bought brand new at near 2 grand and over).

JohnM · 08-26-2006

Why on earth would someone epoxy a flash closed when it will never, ever pop up if he doesn't want it to? Forgetting the fact that a little fill-flash is sometimes a valuable "tool", I gotta think it would cause some havoc if it were ever accidentally left in one of the preset modes that called for flash. Weird.

As for the M2 - I agree with some here that the M4-P is probably a cheaper option. I suspect it would be cheaper and I know it would be more convenient than sending off an M2 for a 8-12 week turnaround repair. Be patient and you'll get your price somewhere.

Another option, if you do have a Canon P, is to simply add a viewfinder for the 28mm lens you purchase. It might be the most economical route given that you already seem to have a series of screwmount lenses and that any future 28 you purchase will likely be a screwmount as well.

The teeny CV 28/35 finder costs about what it would cost to upgrade the framelines of an M2 and it expands on what you have already built.

Anywho, you have options.

SolaresLarrave · 08-26-2006

I would buy the M2 and leave it as it is. If you anticipate floating towards the 28mm, get the M4-P instead.

James Brannan · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnM

Why on earth would someone epoxy a flash closed when it will never, ever pop up if he doesn't want it to? Forgetting the fact that a little fill-flash is sometimes a valuable "tool", I gotta think it would cause some havoc if it were ever accidentally left in one of the preset modes that called for flash. Weird.

I saw him answer this once. Basically he never uses the built in flash with these bodies. If he needs flash he's always got atleast a few SB800's with him. Concerning some VR lenses (quite expensive ones at that) his logic is he knows with certain lenses he'll always have them set a certain way and never wants them accidentally in the wrong position.

Keep in mind he's got to have one of the largest piles of Nikon glass on the planet while at the same time he's a professional nature photographer. He cares not one bit about resale and really looks at his gear as tools.

Speaking for myself, I look at them the same way to a lesser degree though. I use them for what they are made but do care about the possible resale value since I'm not accomplished enough to rake in the big bucks like him.

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

I am kind of set on an M2. I don't want the M4-P. I've FINALLY made a decision on an M body...if you try to talk me out of it, it'll take yet another six months to a year of looking them over again to decide.

I chose the M2 for the following reasons:

I want an all mechanical camera with no built in meter and, at first, 35/50/90 framelines as those are the lenses I plan to eventually acquire. I plan to get a good handheld meter even before I go to Colorado so there is no reason for me to have a meter in my camera. I also want the M2 for its small yet solid build. I don't plan on needing the framelines done for a while to come...maybe even a couple of years. I'm just really starting to like the wide end of things and I want to make sure that, if I want to go to a 28mm frameline eventually, that I have the option. It would also be smart to eventually have flare resistant framelines put in anyway eventually...but I won't worry about that until after the lens I want is on the camera.

But here's my second question: for a 35 for this camera I plan to go with a Nokton 35/1.2. I feel that it's the best choice for how I shoot. It'll cost me more than the camera does, but all good glass is like that. I'd like to get it first, but that probably won't happen. I'm thinking 50. I'm thinking Summicron. It's a classic combination. I'd love to know what you guys think of the different versions and which I should go for.

back alley · 08-26-2006

rollie, you don't have the 35/1.2?
i thought you had pretty much everything

joe

Dougg · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Brim

I chose the M2 for the following reasons:
... It would also be smart to eventually have flare resistant framelines put in anyway eventually...but I won't worry about that until after the lens I want is on the camera.

Hi -- I believe the M2 as well as the M3 and M4 all have the better viewfinder optics, and that it was with the return of the M4 in the form of the M4-P and M4-2 that the VF optics were simplified creating the flare issue.

I like the M2 just fine, having had mine for many years, though it' my only M so I'm not intimately familiar with other family models. I got a 35 'cron at the same time, and it's a wonderful lens, and tiny as well. A natural for this body. I never did use the 90mm T-E much but recently I've "discovered" how nice a 50 is on this body, leaving a nice area around the framelines to see what's there... You'd be taking a big hit in both cost and size with the 35 Nokton, and I guess you'd have to decide if f/1.2 is worth it. Happy planning!

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

When I had jlw's Ultron for a month I really liked that lens. I liked the bokeh and it seemed fast enough. Maybe I should go that route instead for a 35...I was just thinking that the extra bit of speed would help a lot in extremely low light situations.

Flyfisher Tom · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

You might be better off buying a good M4-P.

Roland.

What Roland said

JohnM · 08-26-2006

The only downside to the 35/1.2 is that it is massive - it's like welding a can of soup onto the front of your camera. It weighs over a pound and is something like 2.5 times as heavy as the Ultron. Very nice lens, but you'll know it's there if you're carrying it around.

If you need the speed, though, there is nothing like it for the money. Weight aside, I think it's a steal for $879 new.

peterc · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Brim

I was just thinking that the extra bit of speed would help a lot in extremely low light situations.

1.7 to 1.2 isn't all that much of a difference. I regularly use a CV 35/2.5 and a J8 with 200 and 400 speed films at night.

Peter

kbg32 · 08-26-2006

I agree with John. Save your monay and get the Voigtlander mini finder. It doesn't add much height to the camera like a full size one and it's a little gem.

Flyfisher Tom · 08-26-2006

Stephanie,

If you are set on the M2, then do it, enough said. It is a great camera.

On the 35/1.2, which I have used, it is remarkably sharp across the field, and apertures. Has tremendous bokeh. Is well-built.

regards

FrankS · 08-26-2006

Some folks get there modern Leica cameras modified to show only the M2 framelines. Seems the grass is always greener on the other side.

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

Heh. I asked just in case. I mean...who knows. Next year I could decide, after I get the M2, that I should have another M body (don't know why I would, but bodies seem to multiply when you belong to this forum...). Maybe then I could get an M6. Who needs a stinkin' car, right? :P

Actually, no. Camera is coming before the car, but it's something that I'd never get otherwise so I'm doing it anyway. After this one, it's time to put money down on a set of four wheels.

And another question. Who's the best to get LTM to M adapters from? I'm guessing Cameraquest, but may as well ask while I'm asking questions.

back alley · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferider

In 4 dimensions I own a lot

But my most expensive lens so far was less than US 500. So I skipped the 35 Nokton.

Every so often, except for the black Nikkor 85/2, I want to put all the camera equipment that I own
on ebay, add a 35 Nokton and an MP and be happy

Cheers,

Roland.

nah!
just get a nice zeiss ikon!

but i know how you feel. when i sold my medium format gear and got back into 35, the plan was a nice simple camera and a 35mm lens...that was all it was supposed to be.
so much for planning.
joe

Crasis · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

nah!
just get a nice zeiss ikon!

but i know how you feel. when i sold my medium format gear and got back into 35, the plan was a nice simple camera and a 35mm lens...that was all it was supposed to be.
so much for planning.
joe

Joe, get yourself the CV 12mm. Think of it this way; It can't possibly get any wider so you'll never need to get anything else!

SolaresLarrave · 08-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

Some folks get there modern Leica cameras modified to show only the M2 framelines. Seems the grass is always greener on the other side.

One more pearl of wisdom from you, Frank. Good point!

BTW, I am absolutely and positively happy with my gear. I've used it, learned its limitations and advantages, and now I'm working on trying to make newer, fresher images instead of gathering toys.

Honest!

Steph... put away a 20-dollar bill every paycheck and you'll see your dream come true.

Stephanie Brim · 08-26-2006

This is the last toy I really need to feel like I have complete access to the systems that I want access to. It really isn't about the body, though I will enjoy how quiet a Leica is. It's more about the glass. I may not be able to afford a lot of it now, but having access to the M-mount glass in addition to still having the Canon P will give me more choice in the future. This is what really makes me happy.

Thanks for all the responses.

Oh, and by the way: interestingly enough, I'm more interested in taking my Brick along with me than anything else lately...I just wish it wasn't so bulky.

rpsawin · 08-27-2006

The M2 is great camera. If you want a 28mm frameline why not consider an external vf?

Bob

venchka · 08-27-2006

Stephanie,

When I finally decided to shop for a Leica camera, one local shop had 3 bodies on hand: M3, M5 & M4-P. I'm not knocking the M4-P and I don't want to start a huge flap, but the original Wetzlar bodies are wonderful. If an M2 is what you really want, GO FOR IT!

Regarding a 50mm Leitz lens: 50mm f:2 DR Summicron. You can find nice ones with "goggles" for under $500. I have only shot a few rolls of film with mine. It continues to amaze me! A superb lens!

Happy hunting!