ZI - M?! any news on a mechanical ZI?

[triplefinger]

I have a ZI and love it, it's light, solid friendly and automatic when needed. I do however hanker for a mechanical camera. So, I sold a few things and got an MP. which is beautiful and solid on the upside but on the downside(I know, to have such problems...) it's very heavy compared to the ZI and though the viewfinder is good, the ZI is better.

I have a wish. I wish they will start making a ZI-M. so I can get one as my manual body and sell the MP and buy a small home in Bulgaria with the proceeds.


Mike

[Nachkebia]

Xhmm, I had my eye on MP, but now you confused me

[dogless]

Originally Posted by triplefinger

I have a ZI and love it, it's light, solid friendly and automatic when needed. I do however hanker for a mechanical camera. So, I sold a few things and got an MP. which is beautiful and solid on the upside but on the downside(I know, to have such problems...) it's very heavy compared to the ZI and though the viewfinder is good, the ZI is better.

I have a wish. I wish they will start making a ZI-M. so I can get one as my manual body and sell the MP and buy a small home in Bulgaria with the proceeds.


Mike

Yeah, I sold my MP, after two years of use at $100 USD less then what I paid for it, for the same reason you mentioned. It's HEAVY. Some equate weight with quailty and durability, some don't. I bought an all mechanical M6 classic and pocketed the cash. I'm hoping for a D-ZI before an all mechanical Z1

[joebt]

Wow....I have the M6TTL and I think it's heavy. I guess I don't want an MP anymore.

[telenous]

Does that mean the MP is heavier than the M6? And if so, is it detectably (or should I say perceivably) heavier?

[Edit] But being as this is the Zeiss Ikon forum, let me add that I find the heft and sheer physicality of M cameras preferable to anything that I have tried but the reportedly brighter finder of the ZI is a very strong selling point. A mechanical ZI with the accompanying "nice price" would then be a welcome addition to the choice offered to the rangefinder enthusiast.

[triplefinger]

heavier than the "classic" for sure.

[Flyfisher Tom]

If it is too heavy, 'll trade you a M6TTL for your MP

[ZeissFan]

The weight of the Zeiss Ikon is quoted at 450 grams or 16.2 ounces. The quoted weight of the M7 is 610 grams or 21.5 ounces.

[RayPA]

I like the weight of the MP. It doesn't seem heavy to me at all. But then I'm one of those that DOES equate weight as one factor inherent in both build quality and durability. That doesn't mean that a light camera isn't well made and durable. Although, I've handled a few dSLR's that I would never have been able to stand up to the abuse my user M4-P has taken over the last year!

[Socke]

I don't think weight is a large factor in build quaiity. Money is more important. A formula 1 or LeMans series race car weighs less than half of a typical road car and when they crash it into a wall at something around 180 mph they not only walk away from that incident, they race the same car two weeks later

Or compare a knights armor to modern body armor, a crossbow bolt penetrates a knighs armor and some plastic stops a .38 bullet.

Magnesium is good enough for race car wheels and I have never seen brass used for this.

Oops, forgot to meniton something more important than build quality, ergonomics!

Weight is a big part of that, a heavier body might be easyer to use than a lighter one.

[fitzihardwurshd]

Originally Posted by triplefinger

I have a wish. I wish they will start making a ZI-M.

Mike

I wonder what a mechanical ZI could be be good for

Fitzi

[Mazurka]

How come the same people don't worry aboout flash units, cell phones, remote controls, PDAs or motor vehicles, all of which cannot operate without batteries?

A mechanical ZI with the accompanying "nice price" would then be a welcome addition to the choice offered to the rangefinder enthusiast.

I wonder how much was the Nikon FM/FM2's price nicer than the FE/FE2? Or the M6TTL/MP than the M7? Or the Bessa R2M than the R3M?

[Trius]

Huh? I don't use flash much, but yes, I do worry about battery exhaustion at inopportune moments. When I did more flash work, I always carried a spare battery, and maybe even a charger.

Don't use a PDA, but its use is way different than a camera.

I don't travel or wander around with a remote control, so I don't get this reference.

And finally, the batteries in motor vehicles are recharged as you use the vehicle. Plus, today's auto batteries are highly reliable and long-lived.

When I am out with a camera, I want the option to shoot at a moment's notice even if the battery has died. This is one reason I prefer my mechanical cameras, whether RF or SLR, such as OM-1, 2, etc.

[Carrotblog]

I have a wish. I wish they will start making a ZI-M. so I can get one as my manual body and sell the MP and buy a small home in Bulgaria with the proceeds.

What's wrong with the Voigtlander Bessa R2M Mike?

If anything, it looks and works like a camera way up there with the ZI...

xoxoxo

Miffy

http://carrotblog.livejournal.com

[fitzihardwurshd]

Originally Posted by Mazurka

How come the same people don't worry aboout flash units, cell phones, remote controls, PDAs or motor vehicles, all of which cannot operate without batteries?
I wonder how much was the Nikon FM/FM2's price nicer than the FE/FE2? Or the M6TTL/MP than the M7? Or the Bessa R2M than the R3M?

Even those, who obviously always go out naked for shooting, with one camera only and no spare film, even those should find a suiting place for two spare LR44.
Please don't ask me for suggestions tho.

Excluding the case of shooting at extremely low temperatures for hours and hours I cannot see, what this all-mechanical hype is about ?

Fitzi

[Carrotblog]

Excluding the case of shooting at extremely low temperatures for hours and hours I cannot see, what this all-mechanical hype is about ?

That's a shame.

xoxoxo

Miffy

http://carrotblog.livejournal.com

[telenous]

Originally Posted by Mazurka

How come the same people don't worry aboout flash units, cell phones, remote controls, PDAs or motor vehicles, all of which cannot operate without batteries?

Well, I like mechanical cameras. What you 're saying makes sense but, with respect, I do not agree. I will try to explain why.

There's a difference between cameras and the products you mention. Flash units, mobile phones, etc.etc. do not (perhaps nor can they) have mechanical counterparts. Someone may or may not be "worried" using them. (I know I forget all the time to charge the battery for my mobile - and that's ample reason for worry - but I will pretend it's just me). But there is no real choice - when you buy them your option is a take it or leave it one.

Lets try to strengthen the opposition by contemplating a counterfactual: Had you had the chance to buy a clockwork flash unit, mobile etc., say because some innovator made them available, would you? I think very few would. Despite the brilliance of the concept, our innovator would live a penniless life and suffer the ignomy of a nameless death. Why's that? I believe it is partly because different objects (and their functioning) are entrenched in the collective consumer consience. Any recent consumer electronic device does not stand a chance to be mass produced as mechanical. A clockwork laptop anyone I very much doubt it.

But with cameras things are very different. Cameras do offer the option, among mechanical, electronic and sometimes hybrid function. And they were first made in an all mechanical era, so the shutter, the little escapement mechanism etc. they have does not sound so weird. It may even sound like an echo from a bygone era (a very nice sound for the ones with a romantic bent).

I will state the trivial here: having an option on which to to use can be either a good thing (if you care) or indifferent (if you don't) - it most certainly isn't a bad thing. And something not so trivial: What people choose to take pictures with is determined (largely) by their needs and the attitudes they take towards the product. Of the two, the attitude is the most difficult to explain and understand but also to argue against. Attitudes, which are based on evaluative judgements (e.g. I think red looks better on you) are not facts of the matter (e.g. smoking is bad for your health), so questions of rightness and wrongness cannot be assessed in a rough and ready way.


As for the second question, I think you are right. One should not expect a mechanical ZI to come with a better price than the electronic one. But then that's not what I meant (apologies - I should have made myself clear). I meant that Zeiss Ikon cameras have a better price than the Leica competitors (fact) - that's what makes their price "nice" (attitude) and that's what could be an extra reason for someone to contemplate buying the ZI mechanical instead of, say, the M6 (idle speculation).

[Nachkebia]

I know I forget all the time to charge the battery for my mobile

All the time mate! all the time...

[enochRoot]

the MP is 600 grams. the M6 (classic) is 560 grams. that's only about an ounce and a half difference. the M6TTL is 600 grams as well, and the M7 (as someone mentioned) is 610 grams. just fyi.

i personally find the extra weight on M bodies help hold the camera steady.

[triplefinger]

Well there uis the R2m, yes. but I really DON'T need another 50mm and I feel there is a bit of a premium on them at the moment because they are a special edition. I hope they make normal production models.

I have had a R3A an was quite happy with it., aside from the lack of wide angle framelines.

so, if someone buys the R2M just for the lens, send me a note.

Originally Posted by Carrotblog

What's wrong with the Voigtlander Bessa R2M Mike?

If anything, it looks and works like a camera way up there with the ZI...

xoxoxo

Miffy

http://carrotblog.livejournal.com

[enochRoot]

hey mike...photo village has bodies sold separately for $550. just talk to rich there (if you really want one).

http://www.photovillage.com/html/voigtlander.html

scroll down about halfway.

[triplefinger]

Hmmm, interesting.

[RayPA]

Originally Posted by Socke

I don't think weight is a large factor in build quaiity. Money is more important. A formula 1 or LeMans series race car weighs less than half of a typical road car and when they crash it into a wall at something around 180 mph they not only walk away from that incident, they race the same car two weeks later

Or compare a knights armor to modern body armor, a crossbow bolt penetrates a knighs armor and some plastic stops a .38 bullet.

Magnesium is good enough for race car wheels and I have never seen brass used for this.

Oops, forgot to meniton something more important than build quality, ergonomics!

Weight is a big part of that, a heavier body might be easyer to use than a lighter one.

Good points...all. Weight equating to build quality is an old school aesthetic (?), but then I'm old-school! Like enochRoot, I too find the weight helpful. I have a heck of time keeping a light-weight digital camera still, but then that's the point of Image Stabilization!

.

[dogless]

Originally Posted by enochRoot

the MP is 600 grams. the M6 (classic) is 560 grams. that's only about an ounce and a half difference. the M6TTL is 600 grams as well, and the M7 (as someone mentioned) is 610 grams. just fyi.

i personally find the extra weight on M bodies help hold the camera steady.

Somebody needs to get a scale and weigh the cameras rather then trusting published specs. I've read a review of the MP that stated it's weight as 712 grams. That's over a 1/4 pound difference compared to the m6 classic. I have owned both of these cameras and believe that 1/4 pound difference is probably on the conservative side.
But, as the song says - It aint heavy, its my Leica.
Attachment 31213

[jano]

Originally Posted by RayPA

Good points...all. Weight equating to build quality is an old school aesthetic (?), but then I'm old-school! Like enochRoot, I too find the weight helpful.

Just curious (not picking on you), but how often do people shoot photos without a lens attached to their camera bodies?

I bring this up because I find there is little percetable difference when a lens is mounted to my ZI or M2. Only tested three lenses, the 25ZM, 35ZM and a nikkor 85/2. Yes, the nikkor is a heavy lens, but the 25 is relatively light. I might feel differently about the ZI if I could tell there's a big difference between the weights.

*shrug*