Contax Classic RF

[Hawkeye34]

Just joining this forum. I've used rangefinder cameras for 50 years now, starting with Canon LTMs, then Nikon S2 and SP, then Leica M2, M3, M4, M6 (quite a lot of them), Contax G2 and now, reverting to my youth, Contax Classic RF in the shape of three 11a bodies, all refurbished by Henry Scherer.

I use Contax and Nikkor lenses, plus some recently acquired CV lenses in the Contax mount. To speed up loading and to compensate for other things missing on the older bodies, I also bought a CV R2C with trigger wind. My lenses therefore are: 21/4 CV, 25/4 CV, 35/2.5 Nikkor, 50/1.5 Carl Zeiss, 85/2 Nikkor and 135/4 Carl Zeiss. I also own and use a CV Bessa L with 15/4.5 in LTM. (Yes, I also use Nikon F4 and FM3a, but that is not applicable here).

I find of all my cameras that the old (post WW2) Contaxes are the most satisfying itemsof equipment with which to work for myself. Now I am retired after 30 years as a photojournalist, I can use what I like. Despite somewhat failing vision, I still prefer my rangefinders, and mostly set lenses for hyperfocal distance, which turns the old Contaxes into elegant P&S cameras for street shooting.

Are there any other old Contax shooters out there, who may well, like me, be going backwards to our roots as fast as the professional world I have left rushes forward into digital ?

[taffer]

Hi Hawkeye34, welcome to the forum !!!

Nice to find another Spanish here ! Where exactly are you from ???

I'm from Sant Boi, about 10 Kms from Barcelona, a casual photographer (and former collector, I suspect) and about 8 months ago I discovered the RF world in the shape of a LTM FED-2, one of the so called "russian leica copies". Also have a bit of the Contax world with a Kiev 4AM, a nice copy of the Contax II with some "improvements" (no more take up spools falling to your feet when opening the back

Hope to hear from you soon, be sure you've found the site for RF enthusiasts, and lots of very nice people too !!!

By the way, have you been working for some Spanish newspaper ?

Oscar

[Hawkeye34]

Hi Taffer,

[Hawkeye34]

Hola Taffer,
Thank you for answering. I am English, and living near Almuñecar on the Costa Tropical south of Granada. I am afraid the enarest I have been to Barcelona is driving past it on the way to France once.
For the moment though, Feliz Navidad y un prospero Año Nuevo!
Hawkeye34

[back alley]

hawkeye,

i'm just an old photographer. ha!
strickly amateur though.
welcome to the forum, i'm guessing that your many years of handling a camera will be a great asset here.
joe

[jdos2]

My regular "bang about" camera is a wonderful copy of the Contax- a Kiev 4 from 1965 (OK, the WORKING one is from 65, I've many others that DON'T work). I've the range of FSU (Former Soviet Union) lenses, minus the 28mm, though I would very much like to eventually get a wide-angle from CV- somewhere in the 21mm range, as that's a natural perspective for me.

I enjoy the older camera very much. Something about taking pictures with it makes it all the more worthwhile when I see the results. The character of the photos is pleasing, and curious in a way that is difficult to describe. It seems that even though the lens designers, for lack of appropriate glass, coating techniques, computational power, or other some such resource couldn't create lenses that match today's in terms of resolution and flare resistance, so they instead tried to do something that is rare today, they simply made the pictures taken by the lenses "look good." I like that.

Feliz Natal, pessoal!

[Hawkeye34]

Hi backalleyphoto and jdos2,

Thanks for the welcome. I will try to be of help where I can.

jdos2, I also have Kiev cameras and FSYU lenses. I have two Kiev 4a, plus a "No Name" kiev from 1963. The two 4a's have both been recently serviced by Oleg Khalyavin, very well done. I tend however to leave them at home nowadays as I prefer shooting with the Contax 11a's.

I use, so far, three CV wide angles. I just bought the 21/4, and have also the 25/4 plus the 15/4.5 for the Bessa L. Naturally I would like the 15/4.5 for the Contax, but funds do not allow right now. My favourite lens of the moment is the 25. I have been shooting with this a lot today, everything from landscapes to paragliders landing on the beach.

Maybe if there are enough of us old classic users, we could have our own forum ?

Hawkeye34

[Peter]

Hello Hawkeye34, good to see another CV product user! I am just an amateur compared to you and please upload your photos so we could learn from your experience. I am also very interested to know from you the most effective technique when using RF for street and documentary work. I am using CV Bessa R2, 35mm/2.5, 35mm/1.7 and 75mm/2.5

[Doug]

Welcome Hawkeye! I too have a "Contax" but I'll admit it's a fake, really a Kiev 4a under the nameplate. The Kiev is fun to use, and I got a 35mm Jupiter for it. This will be simply an occasional-use camera, as I also have Leica M2 (since 1967), Minolta CLE, and Bessa-L and T.

You live in an interesting area, one I visited for a couple of weeks three years ago (at Calahonda). On that trip I found the CV 25mm most useful! An example of that follows, with a bit of "street" photography!

[Doug]

Oops, hit the button without attaching the pic...

[Hawkeye34]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. It's good to find another R2 user, even if it is Leica M mount ! I am waiting for the CV COntax-mount 35/1.7 to come out sometime in the New Year, and this will replace my Nikkor 35/2.5 - the f1.7 is faster, and the aperture ring is easier to read than the Biogob-style Nikkor.

For street shooting with a RF, I generally restrict myself to one camera, with spare film and lenses in a vest or small shoulder bag. I put whatever lens I am using, generally 25 or 35 ( for some strange reason I have never really got to grips with a 28, although I have owned a few) and check the ambient exposure by handheld meter. I set this up for the conditions I am in, and focus the lens either for hyperfocal distance if the light is bright enough, so everything is sharp from infinity down to the other end of the hyperfocal scale accorfing to the aperture, and then wrap the strap around my left wrist and keep the camera in my left hand. When I see what I want to shoot, I just bring the camera to my eye smoothly but not rapidly so as not to attract too much attention to myself by fast movement, and use the camera as an expensive point & and squirt.

If ther is time, I will take another meter reading, but from the basic setting, my experience will tell me when to open up a bit or close down. You can give yourself the luxury of focussing properly for the second shot once the first is in the camera. Your movements should be unhurried and smooth at all times, and you should try either to radiate an aura of competence and reassurance that what you are doing is right, or play the "Idiot Tourist", making such a fuss of the equipment or peering through the camera in every direction so that nobody knows what exactly you are shooting. You can press the shutter when you are lined up on the real target and then smoothly carry on the movement to make it look like you were shooting something else. Try it - you will find these techniques work.


If your cover is still totally blown, it is time to practice shooting from the hip. With a 35mm lens, set at 10 feet/ 3 meters, carry the camera in your shooting hand or on its strap around your neck or shoulder so that the camera is waist-high, and learn by practice how the camera feels when in an accurate shooting position for a "straight ahead" shot, or even one to either side. This technique works when wearing a jacket, with the camera under cover.

That is all for now to avoid making this overlong. Hope it helps.

Saludos, Hawkeye34

[Hawkeye34]

Hi Doug,

Your shot captures the general state of chaos down here on the Costa - a lot of building goes on here, so the dust is all around us.

I hope you find your Kiev works well for you. They are, IMHO, very underrated. They are built like bricks and yet they can be a bit fragile if handled roughly. I have found that anyone not at home with older cameras tends to overwind them - on two occasions, I have misguidedly lent someone a Kiev to use while visiting me, and both got overwound to breaking point. Oleg is a useful chap to have up ones sleeve, so to speak, for a good but economical repair service.

Hope to see more of your shots.

Albest, Hawkeye34

[taffer]

Hi all,

I took a look yesterday to Oleg's website, very good prices for his repair services so he's bookmarked for the future.

Doug, that shot looks very familiar to me, Spain seems to have a lot of places under continuous construction/destruction

BTW, I'm starting to feel really well using the Kiev, and the idea of looking for a more "classic" Kiev 4a, 3 or even 2 is travelling trough my mind, maybe without reason, as the 4AM seems to work really well despite all I've read on Steve Gandy's site about the quality drop on "non-classic" Kievs... My first roll with it is still inside, with the pictures from the last PAW weeks of this year, will post some examples soon, I hope...

I think the key here with FSU cameras is to get a serviced/checked one, whatever the model is...

BTW, Hawkeye, thanks a lot for your shooting tips, will try to keep them in mind when walking down the Ramblas ! Shooting people is maybe the most difficult photo exercise, but the most grateful too !

Best !

Oscar

[Hawkeye34]

Hi Oscar,

Glad you are enjoying the 4am. I had one too, but gave it to my stepson as I was getting into the "real" Contax scene. I now find that the older Kievs suit me better, and are nearer to the original Contax the farther back you go.

BTW, if you want a 4a, I am selling one of mine as my wife says I have too many cameras ! With three Contax 11a plus the R2C, I guess she is right, so something has to give. I have a chrome 4a and a black paint 4a, both recently cleaned and serviced by Oleg. If you are interested, please let me know off forum. I can tell you more about the Kievs then.

Saludos, Hawkeye34

[Doug]

Thanks for the comments, gents... And I was interested in your shooting technique, Hawkeye. I do the very same except for the carrying in the hand, which I will try.

I just sling the strapped camera over one shoulder, and keep the strap short enough to protect the camera inside my elbow. I prefer the camera to hang "vertically" from strap lugs both on one side.

The troubles I've had with the Kiev 4a have been light leaks where the back is supposed to seal against the upper body, in the area below the accessory shoe. If I leave the camera in its ready case, it seems not to leak, but the top unfortunately does not detach. I may apply black electrical tape next time. Any other ideas?

The 4AM is tempting, both from the loading spool issue and that the shutter speeds might actually be readable without glasses. :-)

[jdos2]

Hawkeye34, from where did you hear that CV was going to make the f1.7 35mm lens in S-C mount? I'm curious because though I like the J-12 well enough, I've had enough flare trouble with it that I'd like to look somewhere else for a solution, and I've had the Nokton 35mm in LSM- a good lens.

If they were to actually make it in S-C, that would be bloody awesome! I guess it's too much to hope for the 1.2...

[taffer]

Doug, it seems we're both looking for the Kievs we don't have You'd like to try a 4am and I'd like a 4a or even better a late 50's Kiev 2 !

About the light leak problem, probably I'll to tell you more tomorrow after developing the roll I've been using these last weeks. Have you tried to place some tiny strips of foam in the place where you suspect the leak is ? I've had no light leak problems on my other FSU RFs, but both back plates on my Fed and Zorki fitted a bit better than the one on my Kiev.

At this moment the 4am seems to be working properly (will keep fingers crossed). The speeds on the wind knob are really very easy to see, as they are painted white/red/yellow/green over black plastic. The rewind lever, though is not a marvel of industrial design and feels fragile and poorly done. The rewind knob itself under the lever is not that bad.

OTH, the fixed take up spool simplifies the loading process, but I've used a removable one with my Zorki and it's not that bad. I got mine for $40 plus shipping and it seems I had good luck, even though I still can't tell you for sure as the film is still inside

If you already sent some Kievs to Oleg, maybe you could talk to him to see if he has some good working 4am example, and if you still haven't tried the Helios-103, this may be a good opportunity to do it (even though it seems there's really not a lot of quality difference between the Helios and the Jupiter-8).

Happy Kieving !!

Oscar

[Doug]

Taffer, I think I'll do some more investigation of the light leaks, maybe with the lens removed, shutter open, with a flashlight. This 4a came from Fedka.com, and is actually the third one they sent. The previous two had more severe light leaks and film wind problems.

I've heard of Oleg, and may send him my fake "Contax" Kiev 4a since it's not working at all. It came from KievCamera.com.

So with two not-so-good Soviet cameras, I'm resisting temptation to get further into this genre! OTOH, the Jupiter-8M and Jupiter-12 perform very well.

[jdos2]

Doug,

Kiev Light Leaks are usually a sign that the cameras need a good going-through. If the camera's been rebuilt, the light sealing string is probably replaced with foam, and if it's been a while, that foam is probably bad.
That's been a real common problem for mine that I've ordered- I've now had 8 different Kievs, and only recently have I gotten one that really works- from Oleg. The one from KievCamera (this is the 3rd replacement) went back right before christmas, with initially horrible light leaks, then with broken shutter tapes! The camera was also supposed to be a "black" version, but my second "black" replacement broke shutter tapes in seconds, and the third wasn't even "black," and had a (working!) light meter...

The backs to the cameras themselves can be a problem, too- if they don't fit, or the tops of the rivets can come off, needing to be plugged with a tar/glue.

There's someone that offers a complete restore for Contax type cameras in the USA. He's expensive, but I'd like to send one to him for something that I heard will come back as smooth as butter, with a fairly accurate shutter. Even my "nice" one from Oleg, new though the foam may be (and blue foam, to boot) has a slow bottom shutter, and slightly masks when using 1/25 and a flash. I really wanted a cheap beat-about camera, and these aren't they!

[Hawkeye34]

jdos2 said:Hawkeye34, from where did you hear that CV was going to make the f1.7 35mm lens in S-C mount? I'm curious because though I like the J-12 well enough, I've had enough flare trouble with it that I'd like to look somewhere else for a solution, and I've had the Nokton 35mm in LSM- a good lens.

If they were to actually make it in S-C, that would be bloody awesome! I guess it's too much to hope for the 1.2...

Hi jdos2,

Sorry not to have answered your question before now - I have had a really bad cold and it doesn't make for comfortable sitting at the computer !

I heard about the Contax version of the 35/1.7 from another RF list, the CVUG list and from Dr Joseph Yao in Hong Kong, who will be selling me one as soon as they come in. Apparently they are expected to be shown at the PMA Show in February, I think. But only time will tell. I don't know about the 1.2 - that would be RF heaven with the Contax 11a and Kievs !

Hawkeye34


__________________

[taffer]

Hi all !

well, I got finally the results from the 4am, you can take a look at some of the pictures here

They are more walkaround pictures than anything else, mainly for the paw project, and still must project them to check better for sharpness, but it seems there are no light leaks and shutter speeds are more or less accurate when I used my hand held meter.

I'm starting to be afraid with all that horror stories about problems with Kievs...

Will run another roll very soon I think, maybe my beloved Delta 100, as I was starting to like a lot using this camera, but at this moment I still have to burn the roll on my recently acquired Moskva 5, 6x9 negatives, yuk yuk...

And yes JD !, I'll post some results from it when finished, or at least from the decent pics I get

[jdos2]

Boy, that 35mm in SC mount would be great. Do you have a price? I didn't see mention of it on the list, but then again, I notice I've stopped getting mail on the CVUG list, so I'm probably backed up again (spam filters, D'oh!). How much is it going to cost you? Have you seen the compatibility chart for the 35mm/f/1.7/vs. Nikon/Contax thread pitch differences... Does the 35mm work wide open? I don't remember where the chart is on the CV site.

I've had great experience with the new Fuji Acros film- the base is very clear, so the density seems rather greater- the base fog isn't as high as my normal black and white films (Illford 50, among others). It also develops well.

[Hawkeye34]

Boy, that 35mm in SC mount would be great. Do you have a price? I didn't see mention of it on the list, but then again, I notice I've stopped getting mail on the CVUG list, so I'm probably backed up again (spam filters, D'oh!). How much is it going to cost you? Have you seen the compatibility chart for the 35mm/f/1.7/vs. Nikon/Contax thread pitch differences... Does the 35mm work wide open? I don't remember where the chart is on the CV site.

Hi jdos2,

I can't tell you a price yet, 'cos the lens has not been announced as being "for certain". I heard from Stephen Gandy that it was in the offing for the PMA SHow in USA in Feb 04, and from Joseph Yao in Hong Kong who reckons it will definitely be coming out then, but so far no price. I would reckon the same "premium" over the LTM lenses as is carried by the other CV wide angles etc for COntax classic and Nikon RFs.

For compatibility answers, see www.cameraquest.com and look in the Nikon/Contax section of the articles there.

Happy New Year to everyone on this list !

Robin

[jdos2]

I swear I remember seeing him listing the 35mm 1.2 as an SC mount too- until that listing disappeared...

[Wayne R. Scott]

Hawkeye,

I have just purchased a batch of cameras from an 84 year old gentleman. Included in the lot is a Contax IIIA Color Dial, with the 21mm Biogon f4.5, 35mm Nikkor f2.5, 50mm f1.5 Opton, and a couple of 135mm Zeiss. I am wondering if you have used the Biogon 21mm and how it rates, Also if you have any pointers on using the 135mm or should I just plan on selling the 135mm.

Thanks!!
Wayne