Purchasing an S2 +50mm1.4 From a Friend

[Reprosteve]

Hi Everybody,
I'm new to this forum.I just want to say hello to all of you.I'm looking
forward to hanging out with you and sharing our love for these great
cameras were using or about to buy.

Speaking of buying.I have an interesting situation.I'd love all your opinions.

I have a chance to purchase a beautifull, excellent working Nikon S2
with a 50mm 1.4.Also included is a chromed 135mm 3.5 lens.I've been
asking him for years about selling this equipment.He only wants is ani honest fair price.

I called a few well known camera dealers.The range of prices they would pay me was from $315.00(without the 135)-about $400.00
with the 135.I needed a ball park figure where to start.


So my question is ,what is a fair honest price to pay my friend .We know the deal, buy low, sell high.
Thanks!

[rover]

Honestly, those prices seem low. What condition is the camera in? Is it working, and/or working well? How about the lens? This combo (w/o the 135) on ebay has been selling for $600 to $700, or more. You can do a search of finished auctions to get an exact range of the closing prices.

[Bill58]

Check Ritzcamera/ collectable, Pacific Rim and KEH for up-to-date/ fair pricing

[Reprosteve]

I ran one roll thru it so far using my other lenses and the results were
excellent.I intend to test the camera futher.BTW,this camera is in very nice shape.The bottom plate is scratched.The top has some scatches.Looking around the rest of the camera its in great shape with
little or no scratches.
The 50mm 1.4 is in fantastic Shape. The 135 is also in great shape.

Back to my question.How much shall I pay?Do pay dealer prices or E-bay prices,or split the difference?

[Reprosteve]

Hi Bill,
KEH only offered me $400.00 the camera and the two lenses.

[David Murphy]

The dealers offer you lower prices because they need to sell them and make a reasonable profit -- that's what they do. The prices on eBay (for reasonably good ones) are pretty close to the real market values.

[Bill58]

Is the S-2 THAT big of an improvement over a Canon Model P or M-2/ 3? I don't know, so just asking.

Bill

[rover]

I don't know that it is an imporvement. My experience with Canon and Leica 1950s RF cameras is that they all are of very good quality. And without meters or any electronics, they all are featured the same. Film loading and RF/VF are the obvious differences. The Canon P is more like an S3 both have fixed framelines for 35, 50 and 100(105)mm lenses. The S2 is an improvement in many ways over the earlier Nikon cameras, has a larger brighter finder, but no framelines. The Canon V series is similar, though the Canons have adjustible magnification of their finder to fit 35, 50 and 135mm focal lengths. At the time the Leicas were the cats meow because of the big bright viewfinder. The Nikon SP was probably in contention as far as brightness, and because of the multiple framelines perhaps a more useful all in one tool than either Leica. The Leica when introduced was simply a well designed "homerun" type of product. But looking at them now, none of these cameras were clearly better or at least much better than the others.

[VinceC]

>>There are many S2's out there but few really clean ones with no problems<<

Nikons tend not to need CLAs. They either work or they don't (and when they don't, it's usually minor).

The price you got ffrom the dealers was wholesale ... retail to a stranger would be about $600 including the 135 (it's not a very valuable lens). The 50 1.4 is worth a little more if it's a black-barrel version.

Check the slow speeds. 1 sec and 1/2 sec can bog down on old cameras but often springs back to life with use.

>>Is the S-2 THAT big of an improvement over a Canon Model P or M-2/ 3? I don't know, so just asking.<<
In truth, no. Both cameras are more advanced. With a finder just for 50mm lenses, the S2 is the least flexible of the cameras you mentioned. But that doesn't necessarily make it inferior. It's a classic with one of the great lenses that, in Leica mount, would sell for half the price of the whole setup.

[Bill58]

I have a Model P now and have an interest in the S2 too. however, if it's not a huge improvement, it's not worth it w/ all the differant lenses I'd have to buy.

[VinceC]

Rover,
The S2 does have a frameline. It's for the 50.

Bill58,
The difference in lens mounts is pretty critical. I've never stepped down the Leica path for just that reason. The Canon P seems to come closest to what I like about Nikon RFs, though I've never used one. One of my favorite features is a 1:1 lifesize finder, which the Nikon RFs and the P both share. Leica message boards are filled with endless handwringing over which viewfinder reduced-magnification works best. This discussion is a nonstarter for Nikon and Canon P users.

I used Nikon RFs for newspaper work in the late 1980s and 1990s ... I liked the ability to very rapidly change lenses. I've never changed a Leica screwmount lens, but it strikes me as probably being slower.

The S2 was introduced in 1954 and was designed to be a great improvement over Leica screwmount cameras and the Contax II/IIa. It is a great improvement. The M3 was introduced a few months earlier than the S2, and ended up being an even bigger improvement. The one feature the S2 has that the M3 doesn't is a 1:1 finder. The S2 also established the classic Nikon controls that most photographers consider extremely useable ... the S2 set the pattern for the location of the shutter speed, shutter button and film advance for subsequent Nikon cameras at least until the F2.

Rover is probably right about the SP being the most useful all-in-one rangefinder tool. It was introduced about 2 1/2 years after the M3/S2 and was a direct challenge to the M3. Most Nikon users believe it surpasses the M3 and is the greatest, most useable RF camera ever built.

At the time the S2 was introduced, Nikon's main selling point was its lenses, available in Nikon and Leica mounts. At the time, Nikon and Canon were simply making a superior assortment of lenses than either Leitz or Zeiss-- more variety of focal lengths with faster f/stops in designs that still hold up today and which are frequently compared to Leica lenses made 10, 15 or 25 years later. The biggest advantage of a Nikon system, from a user point of view, is that the classic Nikkor lenses in Nikon-S mount tend to be cheaper than in the Leica mount. The S3 and SP are better bodies for shooting a variety of lenses, but the S2 is an excellent entry point into the system. And for those who just want to stick with a 50mm lens and maybe a wideangle, it is perhaps an unsurpassed camera. Unlike the Canon P, the S2s have a reputuation for maintaining stunning finder brightness .. . the Nikon S2 remains the brightest of all the Nikon RF finders. It has very rugged handling. The little focus wheel isn't necessary (you can also focus holding the lens barrel) but one you get used to it, you really can shoot the camera one-handed. That's handy when you climbing, backpacking, holding onto a toddler or dog leash or any number of activities.

[rover]

One of my favorite features is a 1:1 lifesize finder, with the Nikon RFs and the P both share.

I agree. I have a P and looking through the 1:1 finder with 35mm framelines is very nice. The 35mm framelines on the P are not much better as far as viewability compared to the R3a's 40mm framelines, but without glasses they are there.

[sbug]

Well I was going to add my $0.02 but I think Vince summed it all up very well. Give your guy a fair price and start shooting with that classic Nikon. I'm always excited to have another Nikon member here at RFF.

Originally Posted by VinceC

Rover,
The S2 does have a frameline. It's for the 50.

Bill58,
The difference in lens mounts is pretty critical. I've never stepped down the Leica path for just that reason. The Canon P seems to come closest to what I like about Nikon RFs, though I've never used one. One of my favorite features is a 1:1 lifesize finder, which the Nikon RFs and the P both share. Leica message boards are filled with endless handwringing over which viewfinder reduced-magnification works best. This discussion is a nonstarter for Nikon and Canon P users.

I used Nikon RFs for newspaper work in the late 1980s and 1990s ... I liked the ability to very rapidly change lenses. I've never changed a Leica screwmount lens, but it strikes me as probably being slower.

The S2 was introduced in 1954 and was designed to be a great improvement over Leica screwmount cameras and the Contax II/IIa. It is a great improvement. The M3 was introduced a few months earlier than the S2, and ended up being an even bigger improvement. The one feature the S2 has that the M3 doesn't is a 1:1 finder. The S2 also established the classic Nikon controls that most photographers consider extremely useable ... the S2 set the pattern for the location of the shutter speed, shutter button and film advance for subsequent Nikon cameras at least until the F2.

Rover is probably right about the SP being the most useful all-in-one rangefinder tool. It was introduced about 2 1/2 years after the M3/S2 and was a direct challenge to the M3. Most Nikon users believe it surpasses the M3 and is the greatest, most useable RF camera ever built.

At the time the S2 was introduced, Nikon's main selling point was its lenses, available in Nikon and Leica mounts. At the time, Nikon and Canon were simply making a superior assortment of lenses than either Leitz or Zeiss-- more variety of focal lengths with faster f/stops in designs that still hold up today and which are frequently compared to Leica lenses made 10, 15 or 25 years later. The biggest advantage of a Nikon system, from a user point of view, is that the classic Nikkor lenses in Nikon-S mount tend to be cheaper than in the Leica mount. The S3 and SP are better bodies for shooting a variety of lenses, but the S2 is an excellent entry point into the system. And for those who just want to stick with a 50mm lens and maybe a wideangle, it is perhaps an unsurpassed camera. Unlike the Canon P, the S2s have a reputuation for maintaining stunning finder brightness .. . the Nikon S2 remains the brightest of all the Nikon RF finders. It has very rugged handling. The little focus wheel isn't necessary (you can also focus holding the lens barrel) but one you get used to it, you really can shoot the camera one-handed. That's handy when you climbing, backpacking, holding onto a toddler or dog leash or any number of activities.

[NIKON KIU]

Is it a chrome dial or black dial?
In either case grab it for under $500.00
Kiu

[Reprosteve]

Thank's everyone for all your comment's so far.Very helpfull.

The camera is in great shape.The 50 1.4 is a black ring.The shutter
speeds apear to work well.No problem withe 1 sec. and 1/2 sec. settings.
I ran a short roll of color neg.Beautifull! Sharp and well exposed.

Btw it's a chrome dial.I will shoot more film and further test it,Then
down the road I will offer my good friend a fair amount based so far
on this discussion.I can keep as long as I want.He nevr uses it.

Sbug it's nice to join you and all.I've been a Nikon fan since around1960.
Ya! I'm not 19.I'm a senior Nikon guy and having fun.

[VinceC]

Chrome dial is identical to black-dial, but the black dial camera is worth a little more to collectors. They started using black dials after the SP was introduced in '57.

Enjoy the camera. It's a classic. (And welcome to the Nikon World).

[Reprosteve]

It is a nice camera.Thank you Vince for your welcome.

[FrankS]

I"m about to join you fellows. I'm getting Kiu's former Nikon S from Butch.

[raid]

There is sometimes 40% overhead cost for dealers, so if you call KEH to sell some lens you will get a different quote than if you had asked them to sell it to you.


Raid

[raid]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I"m about to join you fellows. I'm getting Kiu's former Nikon S from Butch.

Congratualtions Frank. What made you buy a Nikon given the camera equipment that you already own?

Raid

[FrankS]

Unfortunately this aquisition can only be attributed to a collector's nature. I certainly don't need it to take the pics I want to take. I definitely will use it to take pictures though. Now I have Leica, Contax, and Nikon RF's. I have owned a couple of Canon RF's in the past, so this means I have (or have had) the top RF's in the history of photography.

[rover]

I think you have to have them under the same roof at the same time, but yes, this is my goal too, to have a collection of the great RF cameras from their golden era, the 1950s.

[FrankS]

It feels better to know I'm not alone in this!