50mm ZM Planar wobble problem

CJP6008 · 07-29-2006

Dear All,

My 50mm ZM Planar has developed a bit of slack in it. By which I mean (and I do not know the correct terminology, so please forgive my ignorance) the inner part of the lens barrel that moves in and out when the focusing ring is turned now moves laterally relative to the outer part of the barrel, that part being the bit that attaches to the camera body. There is a bit of a clunk that can be felt when modest lateral force is applied in any direction.

I am not expert but feel that this cannot be good - after all we hear so much about how important it is that lens element be correctly centered. Opinions please. Has anyone else had such an issue? Is performance degraded by this? Calling all lens experts...

I have also noted the same issue with my CV 40mm 1.4 Ultron.

Chris

troym · 07-29-2006

Do you mean that the lens barrel is bent or slanted to one side? Or do you mean that if you physically pull or push the barrel from side to side it moves a little?

I haven't noticed any appreciable wobble in the Planar (or the 40 Nokton, for that matter).

Avotius · 07-29-2006

a friend of mine has a 35 biogon that developed a wobble problem too

ddcc · 07-29-2006

Unfortunately these Zeiss Ikon lenses are Cosina-built quality.......unlike what some people claimed.......welll it's not Leica grade......I was gonna buy one to try perhaps it's better to wait

back alley · 07-29-2006

well, yes, 2 lenses (out of how many sold?) reported to have a 'wobble' and we instantly have the 'they are cosina built' choir start singing.

please, save your money and buy the leica lens...

dirtystylus · 07-29-2006

Chris-

My Biogon 35/2 exhibited the exact same issue after about a year of daily use - I could hear it clunk even when mounted on the camera and I tipped the camera quickly from one end to the other. It didn't seem to affect any of the photos I took, but just to be safe I sent it to Hasselblad USA (I bought one of the first ones when they were still handling US distribution) and they're checking it out. I'll follow up with details on how that turns out once they take a look and get back to me. Hopefully just a loose screw/ring somewhere.

-Mark

Avotius · 07-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtystylus

Chris-

My Biogon 35/2 exhibited the exact same issue after about a year of daily use - I could hear it clunk even when mounted on the camera and I tipped the camera quickly from one end to the other. It didn't seem to affect any of the photos I took, but just to be safe I sent it to Hasselblad USA (I bought one of the first ones when they were still handling US distribution) and they're checking it out. I'll follow up with details on how that turns out once they take a look and get back to me. Hopefully just a loose screw/ring somewhere.

-Mark

thats exactly what happened to my friends lens after a few times using it, he simply sent it back to the place he got it but yeah, seems like there are those problems on a few but dont account for the majority. Afterall even the leica 35 lux has its common problems.

Nachkebia · 07-29-2006

What is

Quote:

wobble

? Can anyone breafly explain to me with simple words

Thank you in advance

CJP6008 · 07-29-2006

Many thanks for your responses. To answer your queries:

Troym - the latter - but only the "inner sleeve". The outer part that mounts to the body is firm. It does not flap about so to speak. The CV 40mm wobble is worse.

ferida - many thanks for the link, will check it out.

Nachkebia - at the risk of offending lexicographers everywhere - wobble is the opposite of fixed or rigid. Wobbling is something that loosely attached things might do, or a drunken cyclist might do on his way home!

Pls let this not be a start of some bash Cosina thing - I paid about 1/3 of what a Leica would cost! Disappointing, sure but the key issue is whether, and if so to what extent such movement might degrade lens performance. Need someone with a test bench - if you are reading this Mr Puts your input would be most valuable!

Best wishes,

chris

Nachkebia · 07-30-2006

CJP6008 : Thanks alot for explaining, I will keep my eye on it

Huck Finn · 07-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddcc

Unfortunately these Zeiss Ikon lenses are Cosina-built quality.......unlike what some people claimed.......welll it's not Leica grade......I was gonna buy one to try perhaps it's better to wait

Ddcc, it would be helpful to know what you base the information (?)/opinion (?) on. Please elaborate on your experience with ZM lenses & other Cosina-built products & your knowledge of the the manufacturing & quality control processes used in the manufacture of ZM lenses.

Do you mean Cosina SLR quality? Cosina-Voigtlander quality? Cosina-Zeiss quality? It would certainly be useful for the people at Zeiss to know that you have learned tha the quality control procedures, which they put in place to upgrade standard Cosina procedures, are not working.

It would seem evident that you are not familiar with "Leica grade." If you go to the message board on their own company website, you will find similar issues raised about Leica products all the time.

Like CJP6008, they too are trying to obtain helpful suggestions so they can learn how to best manage the situation & assess the degree of severity of the problem.

SDK · 07-30-2006

Increasingly smooth and easy focusing is the only change I have noticed in my Zeiss ZM lenses (I have one of each of the Cosina built part of the line, except the new C-Sonnar). Sorry to hear a few other photographers are having trouble with decentering lenses, but I think it is no reason to bash the products as a whole. I think the ZMs are at least as well made as my Leica M lenses. I like the stiffer detents on Zeiss aperture rings better than the Leica ones, which tend to be too loose.

dirtystylus · 08-03-2006

I just got a call from the Hasselblad service center in NJ where I sent my 35/2 Biogon. They informed me that they couldn't repair it at that service center, so they shipped it back to Japan for repair. I'm guessing that they just sent it back to Cosina for repair/adjustment. I'm wondering whether that's how warranty service for the ZM line was always going to be handled, even before Zeiss took over distribution from Hasselblad USA.

-Mark

troym · 08-03-2006

dirtystylus:

I think that another forum member had to send his ZI back to Japan (through Hasselblad) for repairs.

dirtystylus · 09-15-2006

Just a quick update on this issue - my Biogon 35/2 just got back from its month-long repair trip to Japan. It looks and feels brand-new - the wobble is gone and the aperture and focus rings are tighter. At first I thought they just sent me a new lens, but the serial # is the same. On the downside, all of my hard-earned brassing marks have been repainted. I should have told them not to bother with the cosmetic stuff.

tetrisattack · 09-15-2006

"all of my hard-earned brassing marks have been repainted"

!!!

Hah, I'm awestruck, that's both funny AND impressive.

dirtystylus · 09-15-2006

Well, it is nice that they restored everything to factory-new condition, including the paint. But I do miss all the little marks and scratches that accumulated over the year I spent using that lens exclusively .

Olsen · 09-15-2006

- I notice that my ZM 50 mm 2,8 (serial no. 15530457) has a slight slack, but nothing that I would take serious. Because it is so very small and only at infinity. My ZM 25 mm 2,8 has no slack at all. Looking up my Voigtländer 50 mm 2,5 Color Scopar - it must be among one of my most rugged lenses in my arsenal. - Like an american cluster bomb. Slack? Forget it!

My Canon EF 28 - 70 mm 2,8L had a lot of slack after taking a nose fall. My 1Ds II with it on rolled down the steep hill I live at like an apple. Quite a sight. The noice was a lot more heartbreaking. The camera chewed it's own focus screen and had to be sent in for repear. The lense I gave away to my cusin. Although I checked heeps of test pictures which I studied at 100% in PS without seeing any negative effects....

Still I bought a 24-70 mm 2,8L 2.hand. It was just as bad slack-wise so I showed it to the Canon people here in Oslo. They changed an internal plastic ring and tightened a screw and now it is just as new. - I better tell my cusin that he has a practically new 28-70 mm 2,8L after a 100 US$ service.

back alley · 09-15-2006

i'm impressed that they repainted it.

Turtle · 09-23-2006

I do hope this problem is asociated with early examples and has been nailed with newer ones as I have just ordered 3 of them (25,35,50f2) to go on my also just ordered MP. Having to return a bunch of lenses back to Japan would be a major pain in the butt.

I would like to add that like Leica, Ferraris, Lambos and Aston Martins are produced by little gnomes too and until recently the build quality and reliability was pathetic compared to certain mass production models. Being produced en masse in a state of the art facility is not neccessarily a bad thing.....they are a new line and there are going to be teething problems. I just hope they nailed if before mine were made! I am frankly amazed that Zeiss has produced lenses that for half the price or less (in the case of Japanese built models) can stand next to Leica lense with no problem. The cost-performance relationship has to be considered here. I had the choice of a 4 lens kit (I also ordered a mint as new 90 elmarit M) using 3 ZM lenses or a 2 lens kit with some major outlay later on to fill the gaps. After reading the reviews it was a no brainer.

Tom

x-ray · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

i'm impressed that they repainted it.

My guess would be they replaced the entire focusing mount and put your old lens cells in the new mount.

Don't feel bad about your Zeiss issues. My 35 v4 summocron and 50 tabbed summicron have focus issues. The focusing helix in very loose in the 35mm and rattles and the 50mm tabbed binds badly at 3 ft. The problems are getting worse so i guess at some point I will need to get them repaired. Also my new 90 AA had to go back because of binding in the focusing mount. My 35 and 50 are 80's vintage when Leica was cutting corners so I think they really cut quality too but there's no excuse for a new 90AA having problems. Early this year I purchased some new M bodies and lenses. In the purchase i bought a new 35 1.2 CV. To be totally honest I think the optics are as good or better than my v4 summicron and the construction and feel is better. I'm now seriously looking at either a 28mm CV 1.9 or 25 Zeiss. I owned the 25mm in Rollei mount for my 3003 system bavk in the 80's and felt it was one of the sharpest wides I ever used. I guess the new ZM is equally as fine.

back alley · 09-24-2006

the zm 25 is a well made and extremely sharp lens.

the cv 28/1.9 is also well made, has a very nice feel to it. it seems very sharp also but i have not developed enough of the shots i took with it so far to pronounce that.

x-ray · 09-24-2006

I had a 1st generation 28 elmarit and later a 2nd generation for about twelve years but never really cared for either. I seemed to always gravitate to my 21 elmarit if I went really wide. Lately I've been shooting to get a more vintage look using some old uncoated Leitz glass including my 28 6.8 Hektor. I've now warmed up to the 28mm ans seem to like the feel of the images. I guess we all change with time. I also have a 25mm CV for my Nikon S3 and love it but feel it might just be too close to the 21 and really don't know if I'll keep the Nikon in the long run. Anyway I don't like carrying two systems and not being able to share lenses plus I really like the M's over the S3. Nothing wrong with the S3 other than I've shot M's for nearly 40 years and know them like the back of my hand. I probably should wait to make a purchase untill I see what comes out in the next couple of weeks. I've heard rumors that there might be a faster 25 CV with a focusing mount with the quality of the S mount for the Nikon S3. Ofcourse it's just a rumor but I'm not in any hurry either. I would love to hear more about the 28 ultron if anyone has any experience.

back alley · 09-24-2006

from what i've heard, cv is coming out with a new 25, but no hard evidence.

MtnPhoto · 10-17-2006

I have a CV 40mm that wobbles and rattles abit if you shake it. It has gotten to the point that I want to have it repaired. Any suggestion as to were to send it. I have not checked to see if Stephen at Camera Quest can fix it. I would prefer to send it to someone local and not deal with customs. Thanks. DL